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This topic has moved here: Subject: What do you guys at Bungie thinks of the Halogen shutdown?
  • Subject: What do you guys at Bungie thinks of the Halogen shutdown?
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Posted by: Xslastor
Posted by: UL71M4 G33K
Posted by: Usage
I think you mean 'sue', not sew. But I agree with you totally, that would set a hard example for those who would dare defy Microsoft and try to take credit for others' hard work. The day this news came of the project getting shut down was a very happy day for me indeed. This makes me appreciate Microsoft even more.


So you are saying they didnt do any work at all? Modelling the vehicles and characters, scripting the actions, modeling the buildings, programing the AI (VERY hard). They worked extremely hard, and if you arent being biased by not seeing that, then i dont know what biased is.

You are being the biggest fanboy on the planet to not realise what M$ just did. They practically stole 3 years of thier lives from them. How can you be happy about that?


He does have a point though, putting in all of that hard work and doing it all for nothing will make Halogen and anyone else who want to mess with Microsoft think twice about doing something as reckless as making a mod of a hugely popular game such as Halo. I think this incident will set a fine example for other groups and programmers that will want to mess with Microsoft.


I agree. Halogen was taught a valuable lesson, and now no one will be foolish enough to attempt to mod one of Microsoft's games. It's too bad this didn't eventually reach court, as it would have gained more publicity. But Microsoft did the right thing in shutting down this project. Halogen was taking an awful risk when they started making this mod, and they paid for it with the price of three years of wasted hard work. Things have worked out well with this situation.

  • 09.20.2006 12:31 PM PDT

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Erepublik: Save the world from oppression!
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A: Not a microsoft game being modded.
B: Court, publicity? What? Do you want the guys at slipstream productions to be humliated?
C: Right thing? I doubt it. There were more effective courses to this issue. Shutting down was just the easiest.
D: You have a very cold heart.
E: Good lord, If I didn't know better, slipstream productions haters are joining here just for the sake of flaming, and again, if i didn't know beter, usage and cersisus are the exact same person.

  • 09.20.2006 12:57 PM PDT
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Wouldn't it be nice if Slipstream could say "We are sorry for not asking....hey um Microsoft can we release this Halo mod for a Command and Conquer game...?"

Then Microsoft would say "Thank you for apoligizing, yes you can relaese it."

Alas I can only dream.

But in all seriousness (spelling?) this sucks I've been following it for a while, like many other fans and I was very angry and disappointed when Microsoft shut it down. I hope this is not going to start a trend of shutting down user created mods/projects.

  • 09.20.2006 6:42 PM PDT

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Erepublik: Save the world from oppression!
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This wa partially good and bad for the rest of the fan community. It opens our eyes to asking permmision, yet it also makes us all paranoid, afraid that our own projects are at risk.

  • 09.20.2006 7:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cersisus
Posted by: Xslastor
Posted by: UL71M4 G33K
Posted by: Usage
I think you mean 'sue', not sew. But I agree with you totally, that would set a hard example for those who would dare defy Microsoft and try to take credit for others' hard work. The day this news came of the project getting shut down was a very happy day for me indeed. This makes me appreciate Microsoft even more.


So you are saying they didnt do any work at all? Modelling the vehicles and characters, scripting the actions, modeling the buildings, programing the AI (VERY hard). They worked extremely hard, and if you arent being biased by not seeing that, then i dont know what biased is.

You are being the biggest fanboy on the planet to not realise what M$ just did. They practically stole 3 years of thier lives from them. How can you be happy about that?


He does have a point though, putting in all of that hard work and doing it all for nothing will make Halogen and anyone else who want to mess with Microsoft think twice about doing something as reckless as making a mod of a hugely popular game such as Halo. I think this incident will set a fine example for other groups and programmers that will want to mess with Microsoft.


I agree. Halogen was taught a valuable lesson, and now no one will be foolish enough to attempt to mod one of Microsoft's games. It's too bad this didn't eventually reach court, as it would have gained more publicity. But Microsoft did the right thing in shutting down this project. Halogen was taking an awful risk when they started making this mod, and they paid for it with the price of three years of wasted hard work. Things have worked out well with this situation.


The only better thing that could happen would be for another group of people to start work on a new project, and to have Microsoft shut that down as well, especially if Microsoft were to wait until it is nearly complete. This will show that Microsoft will not tolerate any injustice against the company, and will do whatever it takes to teach a lesson to all who oppose them.

  • 09.21.2006 9:16 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

I cant see the guys at Slipstream spending 3+ years of thier lives working on something and then walking away from it.

It will turn up somewhere, in some form, in the future.

At least thats what my optimistic side thinks.

  • 09.21.2006 11:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: Spec_Ops_Assault
Try not to think of Microsoft as some evil huge conglomerate corporation who loves to stomp on the little guy all the time(although that is open to interpretation and opinion). As the saying goes, "It's nothing personal, just business."

But business is personal. As a capitalist nation business is at the heart of our well-being from the poor to the elite, and as such should be treated ethically. While the shutdown of a fan creation of a video game is admittedly nothing in the scheme of things, it does show what little consideration business has toward its loyal consumers.

  • 09.21.2006 1:35 PM PDT

I'm not that active, but never dead.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
That is the "difference" between the concept of Halo CE and what the good folks at Slipstream Productions were doing.

And that is/was the legal issue here. Not the fact that they were making a C&C mod (if I understand correctly, the makers of that game encourage mods using their engine), but the fact that they were making the mod using elements of someone else's creation that they had not obtained permission to use.

Now, the good folks at Bungie and the good folks at Slipstream have done what they could to get this out of the lawyers hands and into the realm of "let's talk and figure out what course of action is best". Both parties regret that it's come to this, but it seems that various members of the public are either unaware or unwilling to understand what the core issue was. It's about who owns what.

Modding is ALL about permission.

If you have the permission from the core game creator to make mods? Great.

If you make mods all from your own noodle on that engine? Have at it.

If your mod is based on someone else's creation? You need the permission of the owner of that creation.

It's really that simple. If you don't have that permission, then you are at risk of them exercising their rights as the true owner of the property.


So, if the team had simply started by modding something Microsoft owned, for example, Age of Empires, they would not have been shut down? Or is it not that simple?

-MAZ

  • 09.22.2006 4:31 PM PDT
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The one thing that has ticked me off is that both Microsoft and Bungie knew about this, yet did not say anything about it, and let those guys put three years of work into it. Now Microsoft and Bungie have changed their minds, and take away three years of work. Now, if they had done this earlier when they first knew about it, I would still be mad, but not nearly as much. It's just the fact that Bungie and Microsoft suddenly changed their minds.

To quote Carnage:

"Surely they (SSP)
could have sought permission, but being allowed to function for three
years with no more than a peep from the other party is a passive form of
permission.
If MS felt that it was going to be a problem they should have
sniped this when it was starting up."

For all we know, Microsoft might start shutting down fan projects left and right. For all we know, they might shut down Marathon Source (Since they own Bungie, they are now the owners of Marathon's IP, right?). Probably very unlikely, but still possible.

The other thing here is that now other companies might start following suite. Valve might shut down Fortress Forever (if that happens, then that means the two mods I have been looking forward to the most, as much as commercial games, are done; I'll probably go insane.)Other companies might do the same. Microsoft might very well have just started a trend which could very well screw up the mod community.

Also, would anybody mind explaining why two direct remakes of Halo and Halo 2 for Source have not been shut down yet?

And with one using ripped models?

[Edited on 9/22/2006]

  • 09.22.2006 8:56 PM PDT