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This topic has moved here: Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
  • Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
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So let's move this to what it appears you want to acyually dicusses: Moderators having bias towards topics.

Well, they are people, so of course they will. Most are not even employees, and it is a rare case that you will actually see a strong bias on their part. Sadly, the whole idea that they are "leaders" makes it difficult for them to post often. Anything they say is picked a part or attacked or used as the diffinitive answer in arguements. Well, on trhe issue of what is or is not allowable behavior in the forums, they ARE the diffinitive answer (even if that sometimes different mods will give different answers).

But the fact is that I don't actually see a strong bias in the case you presented.

  • 09.18.2006 8:31 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

It's ok for them to have bias towards a topic. They're community members like us, but with "powers." Sometimes people misinterpret them to think that they speak for Bungie, but aside from a couple of them, they don't.

Actually, I'd go so far as to say that if a normal member were to copy/paste Shishka's wording and post it, he'd get flamed out of his mind. But because a moderator (and one at his position) posted it, it's ok (by the majority of the community.)

I do find truth in Shishka's words, as well as some things that I don't agree with, but that comes with having an open mind when you're discussing things with people and not basing what they say because of the color of their text.

And about the MLG vs. Non-MLG rant he did- it had to be done. I wasn't around back when he posted it, but from what I've gleaned, there were a heck of a lot more MLG Threads back then as opposed to now.

*edit* (Clarity) I just realized that my second paragraph was a bit off. Please don't see it as justification of one's actions based on one's position.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 8:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
As for whoever that was not being able to find the part where Shiska says MLG is watered down, it is in the massive quote i gave in teh first post... about midway through. He said it in a way that seems to me to be a personal opinion, and attack on the MLG playstyle

Okay, I found the one sentence. As far as I can tell that is the one sentence that you might have a point about. Perhaps "pared down" would have been a better choice of works. Still this seems a bit much to be nit picking on since that was not the point of sentence. The point was that no one gets to claim to be Halo 2 experts because they are good at just one gametype, especially one that removes many elements of the game.

Either way, I am actually happy when mods or bungie employees state their opinions. It makes this place seem less like an empty void.

  • 09.18.2006 8:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7

P.S. here is the quote of Shiska flaming MLG
To the MLG crowd: Very, very few of you have any right to call yourselves "pro." The vast majority of MLG advocates to this forum have been as unprofessional and self-absorbed as anyone I've ever met in my life. Stop asserting yourselves as "authorities" because you've watered the game down into some bare bones game in the name of "skill." Just because you were good at our first game doesn't mean you have any right to dictate what design choices were made in the second, nor does it mean you have any say in what everyone else should think is fun. Fact is, contrary to what you might think, playing a game a lot and getting good at it doesn't give you the right to dictate design decisions for the developer.

Again, he is referring to "MLG crowd": those posting the B.net forums. As I said, he was saying that just because you are good at one gametype does not make you an authority. He was dealing with the issue that people wanting a "pro playlist" seemed to state that they were experts on all things Halo. It wa they that did more harm to the cause of getting an all MLG-playlist (although many Bungie employees have made it clear that was never going to happen).

I think this is going to be a case that you and I will justy have to agree to disagree. I don't see how this one case you have pointed to (especially since it seems to cme down to one half of one sentence) has affected these forums or the playlists.

  • 09.18.2006 9:12 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

With Bungie.net, it's not a democracy, but rather, a Dictatorship.

Achronos is the man running this show- his rules. His way. He asks Volunteers to watch the Forums and enforce his rules. Pretty much, whatever he says goes.

And if he doesn't want MLG discussed here, he will enforce it. The reason? Too much chaos and disorder that stems from the arguement. Thus, MLG is kind of looked down on in this Forum.

Is it fair for those who like it? Not really. Then again, we have no rights. If MLG is not to be discussed, it's not to be discussed, and if a moderator enforces the rule and puts his own swing of bias on it, then so be it. It's a bit harsh, yes, but that's the way it's run here.



[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 9:17 AM PDT
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One thought, that I hope is being followed up, is the MLG itself contact Bungie about running with the "Team Carnage" list for a month. Not and MLG group, but MLG itself. This seems like the perfect opportunity to try out an MLG playlist.

  • 09.18.2006 9:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: AshWalker
One thought, that I hope is being followed up, is the MLG itself contact Bungie about running with the "Team Carnage" list for a month. Not and MLG group, but MLG itself. This seems like the perfect opportunity to try out an MLG playlist.


But haven't we (rather, Bungie) concluded that MLG playlists won't work in the future?

  • 09.18.2006 9:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Posted by: AshWalker
One thought, that I hope is being followed up, is the MLG itself contact Bungie about running with the "Team Carnage" list for a month. Not and MLG group, but MLG itself. This seems like the perfect opportunity to try out an MLG playlist.


But haven't we (rather, Bungie) concluded that MLG playlists won't work in the future?

Seeing as they never tried making a MLG playlist, who can say? I would have thought team hardcore was close enough though, and it does fairly well, so a MLG team carnage would be unnecessary in my view. However, they're a part of the community, and otherwise perfect candidates for the team carnage list. But it might just end up like another Team Hardcore.

  • 09.18.2006 9:36 AM PDT
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You don't consider Rumble Hardcore to be MLG?

  • 09.18.2006 9:38 AM PDT
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KSI, I'm going to be honest with you. I hesitated reading your first post due to your name having KSI in it, I thought you'd be a prick. Well I was right, but I read your post and although your grammar is terrible, you do raise a valid point. Bungie doesn't appear to be listening to what fans want (and that's not a bad thing in general), but in terms of playlists, it is.

My example. They took out Clan Match and Team Battle (5 & 6 players respectively). I must be one of the unfortunate 'Minority' who finds himself in a party of 5 players on a regular basis, with the only options as of right now being Team Carnage, Big Team Slayer (I hate slayer, so boring), and Big Team Skirmish (my favourite playlist, but I don't want to risk my rank).

So what have they given us instead of Clan Match and Team Battle? Team Action Sack (4 player teams) and Team Carnage; a playlist made up of nothing but 'HBO' favourites. Bungie, may I ask what is the point of your forums if you take notice of only HBO's? Okay, people over there are generally more mature than here, but still, a lot of people are getting fed up with Halo 2 now (boring playlists and no new maps) and only use it as it's the only game that all their friends have.

One more thing directed at KSI Seven 7 though. Improve your grammar, and change your name. You might get better received then by people here (I'm thinking 'Shishka'), but don't hold your breath.

Also they did put Team Hardcore into the playlists now, so there's nothing to really moan about on that front now.

  • 09.18.2006 11:31 AM PDT

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Back when this type of discussion was around its all there was, its also a big reason why Pro MLG folk have a bad rep on these forums because all they did prior to the Shiskas rant was basically say "if you dont play MLG you are teh bad kid lol"

so a bunch of mlg'ers ruined it for everyone by just straight out name calling and trolling of all topics closely related to a BR, skill and competition.

blah blah blah

frankly I would just love for their to be an MLG game type setting in matchmaking so those folks who have begged for it will finally get it and then once it does however it does in terms of popularity.

Then we can all move on

  • 09.18.2006 11:36 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

This is topic doesn't make any sense. The moderators are human, they have their own opinions, and are free to express them.

What is disturbing, however, is that you are taking that post out of context to make a point. First of all, that post was made a long time ago, and the point of it was make the forums usable again. At that point, nearly every thread devolved into a MLG-related topic. Shishka posted that on my instruction - and everything he said in it was true. The people claiming to advocating MLG style play were being idiots and doing more to hurt their organization's image than help. The opposition was being belligerent, rude, and was just trying to make enough noise to annoy everyone.

Second, KSI, even if you accept the post in the context you present it in (which, as I've said, is wrong), your statements don't really go anywhere. What are you trying to say? That the moderators have opinions? That they have biases? They are human, you know. That means you've proved... well, nothing. You've proved nothing. So, what was the point of this thread, again?

I'll give you something else to chew on. I don't like the MLG style of play. I think it is silly that you give people one of the best weapons in the game to start out with. "OMG, he's teh biased! FLAME HIM!!!!" Of course, that's only part of it. I completely understand why those gametypes are set up the way they are, and I can imagine how in a tournament, eliminating all possible variables outside of the person playing the game can be desirable. I just don't think it is fun. I also know why they don't like starting with the SMG - I don't like starting with it, either. How's that for a paradox? I could go on, but that would take this into territory I'm not perpared to discuss.

The point, however, is that the reason the post you reference exists is because everybody on this board did not recognize or discuss the real issues at the core of the difference between the two styles of play. They refused to even consider that the real interesting ideas might exist in the grey area I just described for you. Hence, the banning of that topic from the forum. It was too bad, too, because there is a very interesting discussion buried in there. Many people come here to complain about various aspects of the game, but no one ever thinks about why the game is like it is, or what can be done to fix what they see as problems. They just post back and forth about features they demand to be cut because "they suck", rather than thinking of an actual solution.

Anyway, I fail see what you are talking about. You took a post out of context, interpreted it incorrectly, then tried to make a point about bias based on your flawed interpretation that doesn't actually prove anything other than that the moderators are human.

  • 09.18.2006 11:39 AM PDT
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Anchronowned.

(yeah, i dont do that often)

  • 09.18.2006 11:44 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

It doesn't have to - if I am mistaken in what you were trying to say, then by all means, try again. Find a more recent example, or a better example. Your post did three things wrong: it failed to take into account the context of the evidence it was presenting, then that evidence was interpreted incorrectly, and finally, your actual point was not clear.

I would be glad to talk more about whatever issue you have with the moderators, but you'll need to communicate whatever it is you're trying to talk about more effectively.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
The thread gasps and dies :(

  • 09.18.2006 11:56 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Chugsta wasn't banned for calling me obtuse (I never actually read that, whatever - he's welcome to his opinion).

He was banned for something else: Cross posting, flame-bait, use of non-allowed gaming slurs.

You know what they say when you assume things, KSI. I suggest you don't do so about me - I don't ban people for disagreeing with me or calling me names. I much prefer actually engaging people in intelligent discussion, as I tried to do with Chugsta. Unfortunately, some people seem intent on violating the code of conduct.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Achronos will be discussed after i get the heart to read 4 paragraphs from the guy who called chugsta obtoose, and then had him banned for saying the same thing back. ;)

  • 09.18.2006 12:01 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

Actually I agree with the guy who calls himself overlord. He's reasonable and does listen, unlike Shishka for example. But anyway, I've said all I'd like to say.

  • 09.18.2006 12:05 PM PDT