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This topic has moved here: Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
  • Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread

Posted by: Capt Molo
My fantasy is to have a threesome with Tiger Woods and the Cookie Monster... in a trash can lubricated with baby oil and fruit punch.



HALL OF FAME
Muno, Jonny, Christobel, Petey, Caboose, Caboose's sister

Ok KSI, first off you're KSI so nevermind, we're not going there.

125,000 registered users, do you know how much of those are alt. accounts?
I have 3 there

Do you know how much of them are there just to flame
How much of them have XBL... no you don't

And You're Disagreeing of Bungie saying they made it a watered down game of skill.
You're disagreeing?

Vehicles-Gone
Most Maps - Gone
Swords- FFA's gone

The basic chunk of Halo 2 is gone in MLG.

  • 09.18.2006 12:21 PM PDT
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Again, all of this seems to come down to you taking offense at that one phrase: "watered down." I think perhaps you need to let that go. I wish this topic had not been started with an old old MLG post and that you weren't focused on just on phrase you took offense at. The idea that Bungie-employed moderators sometimes don't take the high road is a topic with some merit... although I would say it is pretty much negated by the fact that this is Bungie's community board and not a commerical one. It is a very fine point, but, as was explained to me eons ago, there was a reason they chose .NET instead of .COM. They make it very clear that they are human here and they do give an amazing amount of freedom, all things considered.

Again, since this was from so long ago, I wish you'd find some other example. Heck I think Shishka actualy left Bungie for a bit and came back since he made that post

  • 09.18.2006 1:00 PM PDT

Ok, lets see here
First on the topic of the thread being moved to The Septagon. In your very first post your states that this thread is about a RULE on bungie.net. That means that this has nothing to do with the gameplay, playlists, or totally offtopic threads. So the septagon is the correct place to talk about bungie.net rules.

Now onto your problem with the bias opinion. That "rule" was made becasue the bias MLG players were causing more than a few major problems on the forums back when it was posted. Because the MLG players couldn't keep in line and they felt the were better than the normal MM player (which I still find most MLG players have this attitude) the biased rule was forced upon the site to keep everyone in line. What that pretty much equals out to is, if you want to talk about MLG, go to a site that is dedicated to MLG. Yes, this is wrong, but to keep the community in line it has to be done. I agree with shishka completely, not because of his biased opinion, but because it was for the good of the community.
I don't have anything else nice to say so thats it.

  • 09.18.2006 1:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
I suck at expressing myself, so here is one more try... the fact that he(shiska) uses watered down isnt what bothers me, it is that bias is blatantly used in policy making, and so if we arnt allowed to talk about certain things, because of a mod's biases, then bungie wont make changes based on what the community says(ask any mod if they listen to the community) becase of a mods bias being in the rules retarding our expression.(certain was used alot for the annoyance and vagueness it forces(retarding was used with the actual definition(to slow down)))

Everyone got me, or where did I screw it up?


1) MLG/Anti-MLG was not ruled as a non-topic because Shishka doesn't like MLG rules. He made that very clear in the post you started with. It was ruled a np-go-topic because of the bad behavior on both sides of the fence. It was just flame bait. Yes, he used that post to vent , but he was venting at the tactics and poor attitudes that were expressed back then.

2) Playlist changes are influenced by the community... just not as much as some would like. A strict MLG playlist was never implimented for many reasons but the main one (as I understand it) is that it was way too limited for an entire playlist. It would be like an all rockets playlist. Yes, there is an all sniper playlist and it is very successful, but I would say that is the exceptionthe proves the rule.

3) Or are you saying you want a change in the forum rules? What sort of change? You want MLG to be a valid topic again? The problem is that you are the exception that proves THAT rule: you can hold a conversation without resorting to name calling. I mean that on both side of the MLG/Anti-MLG issue.

So, I guess I just don't see any evidence of what you are talking about. I'd have to say the very basis for your arguement doesn't appear to exist. I guess I'd need to see another example.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 1:24 PM PDT

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Way to blame the whole problem on MLG instead of both MLG and Anti-MLG. you 2=/=thought out statements

Every argument is started by one of the two sides. The MLG players began the war with the MM players by saying how they were better. Yes the blame is on the MLG players because it was wrong of them to start the whole thing. If they had left things alone and conversated properly and intelligently, that rule would have never been needed. When attacked people retaliate, and that is where the Anit-MLG side of the war comes in.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 1:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Way to blame the whole problem on MLG instead of both MLG and Anti-MLG. you 2=/=thought out statements


It their defense, most anti-MLG stuff was in reaction to the tone of the MLG posts. Hard to be anti-MLG without MLG posts.

  • 09.18.2006 1:34 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Having an opinion, and a bias, isnt the topic dude, ALLOWING THAT BIAS TO NEGATIVLY EFFECT THE WAY YOU AS A LEADER PERFOM IN YOUR POSITION IS.


Uh, I'm sorry, but... duh? Everybody is biased in some way. Our biases define our opinions - that's what opinions are. In the case you originally posted, the rule to ban MLG related discussions was done not because we don't like MLG, but because the chaos that people who were trying to represent it and their opposition were causing here. You seem to be forgetting in your analysis that Shishka (rightfully) slammed the opposition just as much as your side. Both sides were (and still are) out of line.

So paragraphs 1-end are full of logic based on a faulty interpretation.... read the entire thread and you will see where i said opinions was cool but allowing bias to effect rules was bad. Please read before you post archanos. (wonder how many people have been banned for that one) The worthlessness of your post is highlighted in the last paragraph.
...
yet you posted all that, on a topic that you admit to not understanding. and you are the leader of the forums? WOW i can see the headlines... bungie.net shoots itself in the foot.


No, I said I didn't understand what YOU were trying to say. Nobody made a decision based on a bias (in this case, an anti-MLG bias). We told both sides to shut up, and that we would (and, in fact, did) ban people who violated said gag order. So, that goes back to my post - you interpreted something incorrectly to make a point that was wrong even assuming your original interpretation was right (which it wasn't).

OK... now with that being said, your opinions dont matter to me, *takes a bite of chicken* I dont care if you like to play in the NUDE. That isnt the point. Now sence you said MLG i can say MLG too... opened pandoras box didnt you? for you liking or disliking MLG... to quote the rock... IT DOESNT MATTER. You said you have bias... but you acknowleged the benifits of MLG, instead of going, well MLG waters down halo. Thats why im not REALLY ripping into you. For a few sentences you saw both sides and used logic, for that I commend you, i personally know its hard. So what all is your argument, now that ive explained what I was talking about sence you didnt know?


You didn't explain yourself other than to say something about bias in rules is bad (which isn't exactly a big new idea), and you're incorrect in your analysis of the gag order on MLG discussion being an example of this. I didn't have an argument other than to point out your lack of context and proper analysis for your topic. You were the one trying to make a point, remember?

Rant concluded, no disrespect intended, and if i hurt your feelings klenex is sold at walmart, if you are poor i will buy you some. Achronos, if you are going to ban me, tell me, and ill leave so my posts arnt taken off. Thought is more important than me being on a forum.

"No disrespect intended", then you try and make some stupid remark about kleenex? Yeah, I'm sure you're sincere there. That was either a very dumb joke, or a very lame attempt at insulting me. If it is the latter, may I suggest you try harder? If you're going to bother, at least make some effort at it. Plus... why would you be banned? Have you broken any rules? Because that's the only way I'd ban you. Having an ill-informed opinion is not a crime here - just go ask the Flood. :)

  • 09.18.2006 1:35 PM PDT
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I personally find Shishka's reasoning to be very entertaining...it's neat how, instead of using logic, he resorts to calling everybody "childish"...lumping everybody together under the same insult is the new fad, apparently...

  • 09.18.2006 1:37 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
A mods opinion and bias are fine, as long as they act in a professional enough manner when they post, post rules and official decisions after objective thought, and leave those 2 things when they are posting somthing that effects the experiance of players on bungie, and XBL(I say XBL because you do listen to the community right?)


The moderators don't affect the playlists at all. They simple enforce the code of conduct in the public forums. That's all they can do. And before you say it, Ninja 0n Fire is not a moderator, he's a Bungie employee whose job it is to adminster the playlists.

The example used, wasnt selected from a group of posts because i was trying to start trouble, it was used because I had just seen it again, and I actually read the entire thing. In reading it I saw the massive bias, that was also present in chugsta's thread. Anti-MLG bias, in rules, threads, wow shiska has a pattern. That was my thought process.

Bias assumes that one side is favored over the other. This is false. In the post you quoted, the "anti-MLG advocates" get slammed just as much as the MLG advocates. You only think there is bias because you identify with the MLG side. Seems to me the one who is biased here is you. That is, of course, your right - but if you're trying to talk about objectivity, you're going to have to be more careful not to let your own biases into it.

Now as for you not reading chugsta's last post, mabey you should unblacklist him so we all can read it together. Or if we cant be allowed to read somthing that might get us up in arms against bungie(said with massive sarcasm) just read the last post, where it shows why he was banned(for disrespecting achronos). Anything else you want me to discuss, explain, or think about.

Please read posts in the future. You'll note I said that he wasn't banned for disrespecting me. He was banned for flame-bait, cross posting, and using slurs against other users. Stop trying to pretend something happened there that didn't. It makes you look foolish.

P.S. I was being sarcastic, with the whole army battlefield im gonna get banned tell my wife i love her thing. The chicken is still good, but a lil spicy, and please dont ever post 4 paragraphs just to conclude with what was basicly a "i dont know what the thread is about, so i dont know what topic im posting on, so im just going to contradict" as your basic message mmmmkay?

Translation complete


Sigh. Like talking to a wall. I know what the thread was about, I was saying that your topic didn't actually say anything. Making a point on a flawed assumption means your point is INVALID. Countering that statement by trying to twist it into that I didn't know what the thread was about" is just trying to deflect against the actual criticism that you made a point on a flawed assumption. Furthermore, I also provided a few thoughts on how even if your assumption wasn't flawed, you'd STILL be wrong.

Why haven't you answered on that topic? I asked you to reform your argument with the proper initial assumptions, but you still keep trying to go back to the MLG thing.

  • 09.18.2006 1:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7

It seems like on here if you say MLG it is assumed that you are a 12 year old kid who BxRs in lvl 23 THC and screams into the mic like a nasaly little girl "ZOMG YOU GOT PWNED LOSER"(loser would be replaced with the n word, or various cursing)

But that is not Shishka or any moderators fault. It is because of the tone and attitude of so many of the MLG posters. Allowing it again won't change that.

Are we now getting to what you really want? You just want MLG to be discussed again? Is that it? And why do you wish to discuss it? Even if it doesn't degenerate into a flame war (again), it will just be convering the same territory of the pros and cons of it. Or do you want to try to get an MLG playlist? That seems like a bit of a dead issue. HOWEVER, I direct you back to the idea of trying to get MLG (the actual organization... I believe their offices are only a few miles from my house) to contact Bungie about getting a Team Carnage slot.

  • 09.18.2006 1:47 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

The moderators DON'T influence either game design or playlist changes.

Furthemore, the contents of the MLG/Anti-MLG argument Shishka was referring were NOT going to be listend to by us, because, as I explained in my FIRST post in this thread, that they were completely missing the real core issues at hand. The real pros who play the game at the top levels probably understand it, but the guys who call themselves the "MLG community" and are actually doing the posting don't have a clue (in general). There are similar breakdowns in the Anti-MLG camp.

Again - you talk and talk about bias, but you refuse to acknowledge that your basic assumption is flawed: Shishka did not operate in a vacuum. I told him to shut that topic down on all the forums as it was NEVER going to productive to anyone. While he did vent a little in the actual post, he did equally at both sides, which they deserved.

Just because you aren't informed of every detail of each decision that comes along around here doesn't mean things happen in the way you think they do. The absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
I suck at expressing myself, so here is one more try... the fact that he(shiska) uses watered down isnt what bothers me, it is that bias is blatantly used in policy making, and so if we arnt allowed to talk about certain things, because of a mod's biases, then bungie wont make changes based on what the community says(ask any mod if they listen to the community) becase of a mods bias being in the rules retarding our expression.(certain was used alot for the annoyance and vagueness it forces(retarding was used with the actual definition(to slow down)))

Everyone got me, or where did I screw it up?

  • 09.18.2006 1:54 PM PDT

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8441302
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8376941
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8499521
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8517805
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8511218
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8515415
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8447114

Who said somthing mean first in all of these THC/MLG/BR start thread.

The who started it thing doesnt work. It was started online from people trash talking, then people coming on here and posting with that crap on their mind. In most of those(i honestly didnt check any of them to be sure because i know that the majority fits this statment) Im sure the starter of the thread didnt talk crap, until being flamed.

So there is your response... and achronos is next

Like Achronos said "talking to a wall"
You DON'T get it...
How many times have you been told that this is something that happened a LONG time ago. Most of the post were located in Zanzibar which you may or may not know what it is, but that was a forum dedicated to Multiplayer Halo 2 threads. In there was were the problem started. Those threads are no longer readable.
Let me give you an idea of the threads this was aimed at

Thread 1 → Subject: MM Players are bad kids
Lots of flame wars erupted from this
Thread 2 → Subject: MLG Players suck
More flame wars

How can you come in here and even say the "who started it think doesn't work"... your making yourself sound like a child now. Please think about your replies before posting. If the fighting wasn't started then there would be no war. You have reached your maximum amount of attention that I am willing to give you. Accept the rule or not. If you cannot, then find another forum.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 2:01 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Dude, you're telling the guy who made the website to stop posting?

Good luck.

*edit* KSI 7, you need to settle down bro. Just chill and discuss with a level head.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 2:02 PM PDT
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KSI, please stop posting and drop it. Achronos has beat you in every point there is. Score: Achronos-6397839 KSI-000

  • 09.18.2006 2:07 PM PDT