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This topic has moved here: Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
  • Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Do not panic, or you will fail.

Achronos, please end this now.
Why must you tell these lies?

  • 09.18.2006 4:44 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Do not panic, or you will fail.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Posted by: BobBQ
My patience is wearing thin.

So Shishka locked and banned. Big deal; that's part of his job. It's part of my job as well, and I won't hesitate to use it if I see any more of this asinine whining before my splitting headache wears off.

MLG / Anti-MLG flamewars are stupid and people to take part in them are going to be banned. You have been warned.

Now get the hell over it and move on.


WOW another mod doesnt read the entire thread... theres a pattern forming guys. this isnt aboutt MLG, it is about bias, and improving the rules. What is so difficult about that? If you want to ban me feel free, you will just prove a statement that was discussed earlier, about people being banned for expressing there opinion. Im not flaming, no excessive gamerslurs here, so dont come at me with a threat... thats sad, a threat over a forums.

The moderators have a job to do. They do not always have time to read the entire thread, but you have still missed the point. I am getting pretty tired of this guys posts.
*Goes to Flood Forum*

  • 09.18.2006 4:51 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

As he is busy and doubt he will reply, and I am waiting for something to compile, I will answer.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Shiska, did you honestly read the entire thread? If not then please do... I acknowleged that you bash both sides, what im saying is that you said you personally dislike MLG.... how does that belong in any policy


I wonder the same thing of you. Do you not realize that you could basically replace the word "dislike" with "like" and use the same post he made as evidence? Because if you want one example of why nobody seems to be on your side, that is it: you acknowledge only parts of things that say bad things about what you like, and ignore the existence of other content. This is illogical and is like talking to a wall.

I assumed somthing? How about you assumed somthing, like o WAIT that i wasnt around back then, I was... so good job on being a hypocrite.

Stop trying to twist words, again. You did assume a lot, and his assumption is based on your join date. If that isn't accurate, maybe you had a duplicate account, hmmmm? His assumption is not relevant to this discussion, where as yours are, and without which, everything falls apart.

6 is faulty logic, how can you tell how many MLG players there are based on usage stats, when there isnt a playlist that is MLG????
We can see every Xbox Live game played of Halo 2, including customs. It isn't that hard to do a query based on gametype. The popularity of the Hardcore playlists also gives us a good indication of people who tend toward that style of play. This goes back to you assuming things about our data collection just because you don't see evidence of it - that is not smart of you.

and im not acting like you did some horrible thing, im saying that you posted in an unprofessional manner, and that the base rule itself is bad, and you couldve taken a different path to releive the spam, and flaming by making those against the rules and persuing people who acted against those rules.

I don't know, but being called "unprofessional" is a pretty big assault on his integrity. And considering how flimsy your supporting evidence is... what did you expect?

What did you mean when you said that then?, if you didnt mean it in a bad way than what way did you mean it? If you didnt mean it in any way than why did you say it? If there is no reason for you to have said it than why are you complaining about me saying that you shouldnt have said it? Should bias be in a policy? Would my suggestion of changing the ruleset work?

1. Already answered - each side was being told why their discussion was banned.
2. What do you mean, in a bad way? As in the MLG guys were acting like idiots? Yeah, they were. So was the opposition.
3. There was every reason for him to say those things. If you actually saw what was going on (although you claim to have), then you'd understand.
4. It isn't.
5. No, it wouldn't, because those already were the rules. The gag order on that topic was put in place because the rules weren't being followed.

  • 09.18.2006 4:54 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

WOW another mod doesnt read the entire thread... theres a pattern forming guys

Just because a Moderator doesn't post every other post doesn't mean that they aren't reading it. I sometimes read a thread, but never post or rarely post. Just because I have nothing really to add to it. In this case, BobBQ is adding to this matter that any further taking out of context of words or things of that nature will result in a lock.

  • 09.18.2006 4:55 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Do not panic, or you will fail.

Achronos is not on my list mainly because he is not a mod. I know that you are quickly going to point out Ninja, but I spend a lot of time in the optimatch forum, and if you saw some of the stuff he did, then you would know that he is a mod. Really, Achronos pwns all.

  • 09.18.2006 4:58 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

It may not have been your intention, or maybe it was. The fact of the matter is that your constant inability to read the half of Shishka's post that slams the opposition to the MLG advocates makes this seem like you have an underlying motive. You also keep bringing up the ban of a user chugsta, who totally deserved his ban for reasons not related to the nature of the opinions he stated. In addition, you keep trying to twist your own thread's topic back and forth between bias, objectivity, professionalism, the MLG gag order, and even touched upon for a while about how this was a bad place to move your thread to.

So, which is it? Do you have poor reading comprehension, lack of rule comprehension, selective memory, an ulterior motive, or do you just like to beat a dead horse?

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
WOW another mod doesnt read the entire thread... theres a pattern forming guys. this isnt aboutt MLG, it is about bias, and improving the rules. What is so difficult about that? If you want to ban me feel free, you will just prove a statement that was discussed earlier, about people being banned for expressing there opinion. Im not flaming, no excessive gamerslurs here, so dont come at me with a threat... thats sad, a threat over a forums.

  • 09.18.2006 5:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Posted by: Achronos
If I had evidence that you were, you'd already be banned. The fact that you aren't is proof enough.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
I wish there was a way I could prove that, but there isnt... sorry. Cant bungie check my IP, and compare it to his?


Tell the kids who think im chugsta that... not me


O.o
He was answering a question that you asked. I think it's correct that he directed it to you. Stop nitpicking about things you can complain at Achronos for.

EDIT: And I'd just like to tip my hat to you, Achronos, for actually sticking the argument out. You have patience.

How long do you think it will be until I'm accused of sucking up?
/me sets timer.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 5:01 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

I am not going to say much more about this topic...because I have other issues to attend to. But I will say this...stop being so confounded to a one-track thought process. Expanding your brain, remaining calm, and collecting information can be the keys to helping decide on an issue in a discussion KSI.

With that said, Shishka did the right thing. What you're doing now is futile. Chugsta won't be unbanned, the MLG/Anti-MLG gag will probably continue to be enforced, and life will move on. Don't be stubborn...

  • 09.18.2006 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
ACHRONOS... you get the winners bananna...

The questions wernt in reforance to the entire thread, it was to the "watered down" comment.

Posting with bias is unprofessional, afterall newscastors have been fired for their bias reaching their job.

How many MLG FFA, and TS games are being played out there then? And why dont you post the stats of that?

How does your query work? Is it based on the name, or the settings? BC people use wrong settings, I.E. Human weapons, spawn times, nades on map, etc. But im sure you take that into acount in your query. What im saying is that you havent done a competent study on how many MLG games are in customs, or you wouldve given the data to shut people up long ago.

So what all did I assume? you are using gamestats as 1 that has been throughly defeated in the above text. I made inferences if there was evidence, but I dont think i made any asumptions

Answer those questions again, concerning the watered down comment for me please, as was originally intended



That's all you want? He said watered down because water down implies something is diluted. If you have one cup full of, say, milk and another full of 75% water and 25% milk you'll have some watered down milk. It will lack the definitative taste that milk has. It won't have all the features of milk; it will be much more transparent. If you like your milk watered down, great. I happen to think that watered down milk is disgusting though.

And no, there wasn't any symbolism between the watered down milk and MLG. :)

Edited for redundancy.

In an attempt to end this once and for all, I've grabbed the actual quote.

Posted by: Shishka (oops! I used a copy and paste of KSI's original quote and left KSI in there at first. My apologies)
Stop asserting yourselves as "authorities" because you've watered the game down into some bare bones game in the name of "skill.


So basically he said "Stop trying to make yourself out to be authorities because you play a modified version of the game in which you strip it of most features, and say it takes more skill due to that fact."

Seems fine to me. Of course, let me know if I misinterpreted it Shishka. Don't want to cause any more strife.

Edited again for grammatical errors.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 5:09 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

As Shishka said, "Watered down" was taken out of context. I would assume by what he meant was that it covered up the true nature of what Halo 2 Matchmaking was supposed to be. I don't think he meant "MLG turns Halo 2 Matchmaking into crap, and it isn't worth playing"

Although, I am sure that somewhere in the "true nature" there was room for custom styles of gameplay and preference.

  • 09.18.2006 5:12 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

The Frozen Minority - The most infamous clan borne from the Seventh Column.

I just have trouble understanding why people get so worked up over little things. If you analyse everything people say you will find bias, contradiction and any number of negative things. Just have to look hard enough.

But it is destructive so I don't see why people do it.

  • 09.18.2006 5:15 PM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

This discussion is going Nowhere fast.

I don't even remember what's being discussed.

  • 09.18.2006 5:16 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
This discussion is going Nowhere fast.

I don't even remember what's being discussed.


The idea that Shishka's opinion was biased and that he used that opinion to lock a thread and ban a subject of discussion.

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 5:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pezza
I just have trouble understanding why people get so worked up over little things. If you analyse everything people say you will find bias, contradiction and any number of negative things. Just have to look hard enough.

But it is destructive so I don't see why people do it.


What's this I see? A bias against overanalysis?!

/me starts a new thread uncovering the conspiracy against overanalyzers titled "The Case Against Pezza"

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 5:17 PM PDT
Subject: Unbelievable
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Posted by: AshWalker
While some mods can express themselves strongly, I don't see how in this case Shishka was expressing a stong bias. At the time, the "Debate" (that was being driven by repeated aggressive posts by certain members that wanted certain playlists) was out of control. And it seems to me that was what Shishka was addressing.
I am on Shishka's side simply because he intends to end it.

I don't give a -blam!- about MLG or the people who don't like it. If people are going to argue and insult each other about a damn feature in a game and a certain group of people, I'd ban them on sight if I was a Moderator. I have never, EVER joined in any of those, dare I call them it, 'discussions'. I believe it to be absolutely absurd. Having a debate is fine, as long as you remain within forum regulations. But when it begins to flood the forums (like it was), it becomes a problem. It actually ruined my posting experience one day and forced me to fall back onto my chapters for Bungie entertainment. Somene would creat a new post in the Halo 3 forum or in New mombasa, someone would BREATHE about MLG and a flamefest would instantly erupt. No doubt Shishka has seen this thread, and I'd like to tell him I am behind his decision of eradication all the way.

  • 09.18.2006 5:19 PM PDT
Subject: Shiska's Locked MLG VS Anit-MLG thread
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Posted by: Zee JollyRoger
Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
This discussion is going Nowhere fast.

I don't even remember what's being discussed.


The idea that Shishka's opinion was biased and that he used that opinion to lock a thread and ban a subject of discussion.
I don't see how making the forums a better place is biased.

If Shishka feels that that is what needs done, then frankly, that is what needs done.

  • 09.18.2006 5:21 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

1. If we posted internal usage data to everyone, not only would be giving away data to possible competitors that we want to keep to ourselves, but we'd also have to do requests for what people play any other sizeable minority organization. You'll probably think I'm using that as a smokescreen to avoid telling the truth, but I doubt even posting the real numbers would convince you otherwise.
2. MLG style play IS watered down. Specifically, it strives to remove variablity and luck from the game to force the player with the best "skill" to the top levels. As Shishka says, this definition of skill being valid is somewhat debatable, but in a tournament organization like MLG, that's not the point. The point is consistancy. If everyone spawns with a powerful weapon, the winner in a fight is who is better with that gun. But if I just spawn with a SMG, then someone who was lucky to spawn near a better gun will likely have better luck. The arguments to this are full and varied, but the point is that MLG style play is a stripped down set of Halo 2 rules - BY DESIGN. It isn't a flaw of MLG's gametypes - that's how they want them, and it serves their purposes well. I don't understand why you think that is a negative connotation. Maybe that is because everything else in Shishka's post can more clearly be attributed to him talking to the trolls on the forum rather than the gametypes themselves. But if you actually understand the reason for the setup of MLG tournament types, then you'd realize what a non-point you have there.

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
How many MLG FFA, and TS games are being played out there then? And why dont you post the stats of that?

How does your query work? Is it based on the name, or the settings? BC people use wrong settings, I.E. Human weapons, spawn times, nades on map, etc. But im sure you take that into acount in your query. What im saying is that you havent done a competent study on how many MLG games are in customs, or you wouldve given the data to shut people up long ago.

So what all did I assume? you are using gamestats as 1 that has been throughly defeated in the above text. I made inferences if there was evidence, but I dont think i made any asumptions

Answer those questions again, concerning the watered down comment for me please, as was originally intended

  • 09.18.2006 5:22 PM PDT

Halo3Planet, the place for all things Halo 3..

Need help finding skulls, make sure to go here.

Just by the way, KSI, your idea to allow MLG threads and just ban the people who flamed would be an enormous task for all of the moderators to undertake. I was not here at the time, but i will beleive when others say that the flaming was out of hand. I don't think it is plausible to allow MLG threads to thrive, because they will all break into flamefests. People will just make new accounts when they get banned. Just to sum it up, the task you propose is so overwhelming, that i do not think that the moderators would want to attempt it, they would rather do the easier way, and just lock the MLG threads before they can begin to morph into flame wars.

(The word Anti-MLG can be substituted for MLG anywhere in my post, just to appease both sides.)

EDIT- o yea, and what were you referring to when you said the banhammer is never too far away? It is the first post on page six, i just dont feel like quoting it. Could you just clear that up for me?

[Edited on 9/18/2006]

  • 09.18.2006 5:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It may not have been your intention, or maybe it was. The fact of the matter is that your constant inability to read the half of Shishka's post that slams the opposition to the MLG advocates makes this seem like you have an underlying motive. You also keep bringing up the ban of a user chugsta, who totally deserved his ban for reasons not related to the nature of the opinions he stated. In addition, you keep trying to twist your own thread's topic back and forth between bias, objectivity, professionalism, the MLG gag order, and even touched upon for a while about how this was a bad place to move your thread to.

So, which is it? Do you have poor reading comprehension, lack of rule comprehension, selective memory, an ulterior motive, or do you just like to beat a dead horse?

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
WOW another mod doesnt read the entire thread... theres a pattern forming guys. this isnt aboutt MLG, it is about bias, and improving the rules. What is so difficult about that? If you want to ban me feel free, you will just prove a statement that was discussed earlier, about people being banned for expressing there opinion. Im not flaming, no excessive gamerslurs here, so dont come at me with a threat... thats sad, a threat over a forums.
I hear spin doctors can make a ton of money in law and politics.

  • 09.18.2006 5:24 PM PDT