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This topic has moved here: Subject: Losing faith in bungie
  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie
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I'm seriously losing faith in bungie as a maker of quality games. They seem to be turning quickly into a whore, with microsoft being the pimp. The feeling's been building up for quite a few months now, and frankly, i just have to rant about it.

* Lack of community interaction.

No longer do we have bungie employees interacting with the b.net community to the extent they used to. Other than maybe N0F in the optimatch, and the occasional answer from KP, we get nothing. What about Frankie and Sketch? Frankie only posts when told to by someone on MSN, and sketch has disappeared from the face of the earth, apparantly now limiting his posting to unnofficial subcommunities, as demonstrated during the shutdown of HaloGEN, with his response being posted on HBO, rather than here, where there were 3 pages of questions about it left totally unanswered. In fact, i'm fairly sure Marty has racked up more posts on the public forums than sketch and frankie put together, and those two are paid to interact with us.

* Halo turned into a money-whoring franchise

So, cheap, rushed Halo games that leave you feeling unsatisfied i can live with. But cheap sequels, spin-offs and likely-to-be-crap films, no. My first thought at the halo movie was "-blam!- yeah!!", then of course, the studios have their mucky hands in on it, so it's going to be a mass-market piece of crap. Might as well have given directorship to Uwe Boll.

We have a new halo portal, that works with about 5% of phones, most of which are just the crap 2-year old ones the american phone companies dole out, and costs an absolute fortune to get what is basically nothing. Commercial -blam!- on a stick, in every way.

We have almost-confirmed reports of a Halo RTS. Two things about this, obviously we've now seen the death of "You'll hear it from us as soon as the announcement is made", and plus, the whole idea is absolute tossery. Seriously. Halo is a first person shooter. Halo is meant to be an immersive, action-packed, fast paced game with an amazing storyline, only 1 of those applies to RTSs, and it ain't action packed, storyline-filled shooty shooty.

Also, we have rumours of the halo franchise being passed on to other studios. Just... No. It'll ruin it beyond any recovery. Other companies aren't bungie, they don't have bungie's flair, they don't have bungie's creativity or just damned coolness. This will just end with Halo, which had the potential to be one of the greatest game series of all time, turning into a laughing stock as we hit final fantasy levels of films, sequels and spin-offs galore. Just think; "Halo 13: the dirge of the ugly grunt!", or "Halo: The Movie: The Game: Directed by Peter Jackson's assistant's assistant!"

And yes, i'm going to get shouted down by "smarter" people than me, and yes they're going to spout the same old crap about bungie "being a business above all else", but we have to wonder, is bungie really bungie? Or should it just be renamed "Microsoft's -blam!-; formerly known as 'Those guys who made halo'"

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:23 AM PDT
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Err? Moved? Why?

It's a general bungie topic, it barely mentions the community, it's mostly about bungie's future as a game company

  • 09.27.2006 11:27 AM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

I fear that Halo is on the fast track to being the Evangelion of video games: crap merchandise and remakes will still be released on a regular basis ten years after the original thing came out.

  • 09.27.2006 11:29 AM PDT
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Yeah, this seems to fit more in The Underground, apart from the bit about KP and Ske7ch, maybe.

I have to say that I think any true Bungie fan must surely have some doubts about the direction the Studio is headed.

Well, if this all goes the way it looks like it's headed, tail-spinning into merchandise and tack, we'll always have Halo 1... I hope you see where you're headed, Bungie, and I really hope (probably in vain) that you realise that yes, being rich is a wonderful thing... But that a wonderful reputation like that you\ve taken years to build up can be lost very quickly.

And that you can't buy that back.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:29 AM PDT
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Well Jessica, you're getting older and deserve the truth this time...

Yes, money controlls the world. People will do whatever they can to get more of it, and Halo is just another gateway to our paychecks. The Bungie we knew is dead, long live the new Bungie more modern and fit the comercial circus that rules the gaming industry today.

Seriously, if you want (or expect) a good communication with Bungie employees like it were before, long long time ago... Well, then you're just going to be disappointed I'm afraid. Let go of the past, the future is here now.

In the meanwhile, find some friends and use B.net as a place to have fun instead.

  • 09.27.2006 11:31 AM PDT
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The Frontline - A group dedicated to help improve the forums as a whole.

Yeah, the spin-offs will leave a bitter taste to the whole Halo phenomenon. i r teh worriez

And I have to agree, The Underground would have been my choice as well... :\

The Underground
Bungie General and Oldschool Games


[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:31 AM PDT
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Halo Wars was quite a disappointment. Something tells me it will go down the path of Myth 3. What I hated most was the whole Peter Jackson thing.
*Sigh*
I understand that money has to be made. Hell, Halo started out as an RTS. Still, with all these new installments in the Halo universe, I'm afraid Halo will lose it's quality. Fast.
I'm tired of Halo actually, and the only comfort I'm holding right now, is that Halo wars is made by another Studio, so that Bungie can move on.

  • 09.27.2006 11:39 AM PDT
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1 - You compared the Halo series to the FF series as if it's a bad thing. FF has been around for ages, and while I don't like the game there are hundreds of thousands of people who love most if not all of the games that come out. Hell any video game company should pray for FF's staying power.

2 - You're trashing a game of which you've seen all of 30 seconds of....and not even game footage at that. Halo Wars could be the next Starcraft for all you know, which in case you haven't played could be action packed (assuming you were playing good people) and had a pretty good story line.

The rest is just you commenting on rumors....nothing else.


As for the community interaction, I'm whatever about that.


The only thing I'm upset/worried about is the control scheme....RTS are generally a pain to work with on consoles.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:40 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

I have a feeling that when Halo 3 comes out, things will be back to "normal."

Though I'm not sure what "normal" is (was) around here. Seeing as how Frankie and Sketch and Sawnose don't post, I don't feel moved by their apparent lack of involvement.

I can only assume that them being busy with Halo 3 is the reason for this, maybe. Once it hits, this site should see a considerable change.

  • 09.27.2006 11:41 AM PDT

Gimme Dat Grip.

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Bungie is a busy company, I by far would rather them be hard at work on there products then pay us any heed. No matter who is being paid to do what or who is asking how many questions.

And Bungie being able to have Mircosoft behind their back is a remarkable attribute in which Bungie gets tons of benifits from in order to help produce their products. To tell you the truth I doubt Halo would have gotten far without Microsoft's help.

I knew tons of people who said they were "huge" and so into gaming and had never even heard of Bungie before Halo came out. I just don't think Halo would have been blown up so big if Microsoft had anything to do with it from earlier on.

Bungie wouldn't let something like that happen to one of their games. It would just be so un-heard of from them if it ever came to something like that.

And as for the movie, we can only wait and see, I can bet money on it that it shall be better than any other movie based off of a video game.(=

  • 09.27.2006 11:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
1 - You compared the Halo series to the FF series as if it's a bad thing. FF has been around for ages, and while I don't like the game there are hundreds of thousands of people who love most if not all of the games that come out. Hell any video game company should pray for FF's staying power.

2 - You're trashing a game of which you've seen all of 30 seconds of....and not even game footage at that. Halo Wars could be the next Starcraft for all you know, which in case you haven't played could be action packed (assuming you were playing good people) and had a pretty good story line.

The rest is just you commenting on rumors....nothing else.


As for the community interaction, I'm whatever about that.

1. In my honest opinion, FF sucks. But that's not the point.
2. You are correct, it could be an awesome game (even though the fact that it's been made by the guys who created AOE frightens me). But even that isn't the real issue for me. What i hate most is the fact that Halo is becoming a big fat cow that has been milked just a few times too many.

Oh well, for now it's a matter of giving everyone the benefit of doubt. I don't want to bash things if I don't even know it, but my faith in Halo has taken a big dent, and even my faith in Bungie has a few scratches now.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
1. In my honest opinion, FF sucks. But that's not the point.
2. You are correct, it could be an awesome game (even though the fact that it's been made by the guys who created AOE frightens me). But even that isn't the real issue for me. What i hate most is the fact that Halo is becoming a big fat cow that has been milked just a few times too many.


Yeah I'm not a big fan of turn based game either...mainly when one of my characters only "attacks" was to dance...(DAMN YOU FFrandom letters!!!)

Again I'm going to use the FF refrence only because of how many there were so bare with me.

We're up to number 13 for crying out loud so that series has been milked, grilled, and whatever else you can do to a cow....yet people keep coming back for more. Again, I don't play that series but I can only assume people keep coming back for more because of the story, game play, or because it's just a kick ass game.



I guess if you don't like the FF analogy you can use Mega Man too....and I guess Zelda to a lesser extent. Sans cartoon obviously.



Honestly...right now we have nothing to go on about Halo Wars, to say now it's going to be the death of the Halo series makes you look as bad as the conspiricy theorists in the Halo 3 forum.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:49 AM PDT

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Ok, here's my entire opinion on all of this:

- Halo started out as an RTS. I think it's looking great, and the CG trailer really actually got me excited now. Make sure you watch it, if you haven't.

- AOE, in my opinion, is the second best RTS of all time, aside from the Warcraft and Starcraft series.

- Final Fantasy, besides the point, is still loved by it's fan, even though it's now on 13. Some could say it got milked, others disagree. (Although 7 still is the best :)

- I'm not sure about this Peter Jackson thing, but I know Bungie is smart enough to not lose track of where it's fans are... Remeber, they're not making the RTS anyway.

- If you honestly don't like Halo Wars when it's released, then don't play it. It's just another game in the franchise. Go play Halo 3 with your friends instead, if it's really so much of a bother.

- I think it's a bit sad to hear this from some of the moderators, (i.e. some of the more loyal Bungie fans..)

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:50 AM PDT
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Bungie wouldn't let something like that happen to one of their games. It would just be so un-heard of from them if it ever came to something like that.

Bear in mind bungie have no say in this, everything is controlled by the bean-counters at MS.

And as for the movie, we can only wait and see, I can bet money on it that it shall be better than any other movie based off of a video game.(=

To be frank, it can be a million times better than a combination of the greatest video game movies ever and still be wank.

Posted by: SS_Zag1
- I think it's a bit sad to hear this from some of the moderators, (i.e. some of the more loyal Bungie fans..)


And what makes the mods any more loyal than me? I've been an active member of this community for longer than half of them, mods are just members with responsibility. They may have white text, but just remember they're still just members. White text doesn't mean you can't disagree with them, white text doesn't mean they're right.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:50 AM PDT

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Posted by: elmicker
Bungie wouldn't let something like that happen to one of their games. It would just be so un-heard of from them if it ever came to something like that.

Bear in mind bungie have no say in this, everything is controlled by the bean-counters at MS.

Not true.. Some of the Bungie staff are over at Ensemble, helping them stick with the Halo Universe and Halo feel.

  • 09.27.2006 11:51 AM PDT

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This is starting to sound a bit like the Halo 3 Forum, making conclusions before reading the facts.

Fact 1) None of us have played these games or new Halo projects

Fact 2) Bungie is working with both teams on both projects, quality and quantity will be ensured

So I think everyone should just wait and see.

  • 09.27.2006 11:56 AM PDT
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If it involves the Halo universe and isn't 100% start to finish made by Bungie, I'm personally not that interested. That unless it turns out to be a super fantastic best of the genre deal, then I might at least look at it.

I liken the "Peter Jackson" thing to a Star Wars game not made by Lucas Arts or Doom/Quake not made by id.

As for the Halo wars thing. I didn't enjoy C&C as an FPS, I don't see why I'll enjoy Halo as a RTS.

  • 09.27.2006 11:57 AM PDT
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I completely agree. I've been losing faith in Bungie for the past few months too.

The community interaction lately has become horrible. The community team rarely ever posts here. The Halogen shutdown is a great example of that. There were several topics which were over three pages long asking questions about the shutdown and none of them received answers. Sketch posted several times at HBO, but not here.

We have been told that if we don't hear it from Bungie it isn't it. However, they don't acknowledge that Neill Blomkamp has been chosen to direct the Halo movie. There was an interview with him at RedvsBlue, Peter Jackson talked about him, but bungie made up some excuse abotu why they couldn't give us news.

Now they are really milking the Halo franchise, with the movie, a series of comics, two other games, and probably some more crappy products they haven't announced yet. Do we need more Halo games?

  • 09.27.2006 11:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: SS_Zag1
- I think it's a bit sad to hear this from some of the moderators, (i.e. some of the more loyal Bungie fans..)


And what makes the mods any more loyal than me? I've been an active member of this community for longer than half of them, mods are just members with responsibility. They may have white text, but just remember they're still just members. White text doesn't mean you can't disagree with them, white text doesn't mean they're right.
I echo that sentiment, but I'd add that removing a couple of words makes a completely valid point:

Posted by: SS_Zag1
- I think it's a bit sad to hear this from some of the more loyal Bungie fans.

I wonder how long until a member of the Bungie community interaction team responds? And if they did, I can only hope for some original response, and not one drafted by a commitee to carefully remove any individuality or negativity. Bungie, show us you're listening.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 11:58 AM PDT

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Posted by: Saint
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: SS_Zag1
- I think it's a bit sad to hear this from some of the moderators, (i.e. some of the more loyal Bungie fans..)


And what makes the mods any more loyal than me? I've been an active member of this community for longer than half of them, mods are just members with responsibility. They may have white text, but just remember they're still just members. White text doesn't mean you can't disagree with them, white text doesn't mean they're right.
I echo that sentiment, but I'd add that removing a couple of words makes a completely valid point:Posted by: SS_Zag1
- I think it's a bit sad to hear this from some of the more loyal Bungie fans.)



Sorry, maybe I wasn't too clear. If I know the moderators as well as I think I do, most of them are Bungie through and through. They've really enjoyed everything Bungie has done.

However, I'm a very loyal Bungie fan, and I still think this RTS is going to be a pretty decent, or maybe even spectacular game.

I like what Zee has said. We're jumping to conlcusion on, well, at this point, one RTS and a completely unkown project!

I have faith in Ensemble Studios. The AOE games were fantastic, imo. Some of the best RTS ever.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zee JollyRoger
Fact 2) Bungie is working with both teams on both projects, quality and quantity will be ensured


They said similar things about Halo PC and Gearbox.

*shudders*

  • 09.27.2006 12:01 PM PDT
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Good lord! What is the world coming to... tut tut!

  • 09.27.2006 12:03 PM PDT

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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Zee JollyRoger
Fact 2) Bungie is working with both teams on both projects, quality and quantity will be ensured


They said similar things about Halo PC and Gearbox.

*shudders*


Halo PC.. Is Halo for the PC! My god!

It turned out fine. Tons of loyal Halo fans still play it.

  • 09.27.2006 12:03 PM PDT