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  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie
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Posted by: MrJames
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Why is this single issue for "another website"?

Plain and simple, Achronos says it is. He runs the site, he does what he pleases. If he says it belongs in another site, it belongs in another site.

Actually it belongs on another site because Bungie isn't making Halo Wars. Ensemble is, and a topic about Ensembles game would, of course, belong on Ensemble's forums, regardless of what the overlord of this site thinks.

-TGP-

  • 09.28.2006 4:17 PM PDT

Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
1 - You compared the Halo series to the FF series as if it's a bad thing. FF has been around for ages, and while I don't like the game there are hundreds of thousands of people who love most if not all of the games that come out. Hell any video game company should pray for FF's staying power.

2 - You're trashing a game of which you've seen all of 30 seconds of....and not even game footage at that. Halo Wars could be the next Starcraft for all you know, which in case you haven't played could be action packed (assuming you were playing good people) and had a pretty good story line.

The rest is just you commenting on rumors....nothing else.


As for the community interaction, I'm whatever about that.


The only thing I'm upset/worried about is the control scheme....RTS are generally a pain to work with on consoles.

1. FF is overdone, yes, people love it, but it's just annoying now. It's a cash crop, nothing more, nothing less.

2. The game could be great, and what-not. The thing is not about the game quality, but rather, the abuse of the Halo name. Halo was originally a RTS. But it was made a shooter. It should be a shooter, the series should not be overdone with so many little spin-offs and what-not. Make great games, and let the series end, don't prolong it far past its time, like FF.

  • 09.28.2006 4:20 PM PDT
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Good point. I'm not sure why I'm still debating with you.
1--Yeah, you're a hypocrite, plain and simple...you say I'm rude, whereas you're the one that said I was talking out of my ass...obviously I wasn't talking out of my ass, because if I was, you wouldn't continue this debate.


And my last paragraph was sarcasm. I'm showing how you saw me defending a company and assumed I'm a fanboy. Which is wrong. Therefore, I assumed (sarcastically) that you're just some snot-nosed punk out to stick it to the man. Which is also wrong. Point is, I'm not a fanboy. I don't really like Halo 2, and Bungie's been irking me a bit lately with their lack of community interaction. I hardly even visit their forums anymore; I only showed up now because of the Halo Wars announcement.

  • 09.28.2006 4:57 PM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

With all of this focus on Halo, is it wrong that I wish for simpler times?

  • 09.28.2006 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: MrJames
Good point. I'm not sure why I'm still debating with you.
1--Yeah, you're a hypocrite, plain and simple...you say I'm rude, whereas you're the one that said I was talking out of my ass...obviously I wasn't talking out of my ass, because if I was, you wouldn't continue this debate.


And my last paragraph was sarcasm. I'm showing how you saw me defending a company and assumed I'm a fanboy. Which is wrong. Therefore, I assumed (sarcastically) that you're just some snot-nosed punk out to stick it to the man. Which is also wrong. Point is, I'm not a fanboy. I don't really like Halo 2, and Bungie's been irking me a bit lately with their lack of community interaction. I hardly even visit their forums anymore; I only showed up now because of the Halo Wars announcement.
It seems we've been battling sarcasm with sarcasm...which I guess is fruitless in the end...

  • 09.28.2006 5:17 PM PDT
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I think Bungie should ban free speech on this forum. If you disagree with Bungie or their decisions, then you're banned. I think it may soon come to that.

  • 09.28.2006 5:37 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: Pointed Star
I think Bungie should ban free speech on this forum. If you disagree with Bungie or their decisions, then you're banned. I think it may soon come to that.


If you had bothered to read the code of conduct, you'd know that you don't have freedom of speech on this website. I understand you were trying to be a sarcastic jerk, but unfortunately you only made it halfway there. I'll let you figure out which half.

This isn't a free country. This is Bungie.Net. You agreed to our rules when you created an account here. If you don't like the rules, feel free to find another website.

  • 09.28.2006 7:13 PM PDT
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this is a scary thing actually. but what i cant get over is WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? why is bungie leting another studio do something that bungie made from the bottom of time?? i just dont get it. with the whole moive thing i just hope that it is not like that star wars trilogy. where every other commercial on tv is Star wars or in this case HALO. i wonder sometimes if bungie is getting cockey. and they think that they are all that. well heads up bungie, look at gears of war, if you dont do well on H3, then you just lost it and you over did it with the whole halo wars game.

  • 09.28.2006 7:27 PM PDT
Subject: -------------------------------------------------------

Well, this thread has got me thinking.

First, the HaloGen issue. There's a really simple solution that would have made everyone happy. Give the HaloGen team jobs at Ensemble if they want them. Everyone's happy.

Second, the issue of Bungie selling out again. This was inevitable. There are forces far, far larger than Bungie. First, Bungie is huge and is getting dangerously close to have spent 10 years on Halo. Now that I've finally seen the other side of the NDA (at another game studio), I can understand why so many of the original employees have left. The work is hard and working on the same thing for so long is incredibly hard. People go into the industry to make games. You can only write a particle engine so many times before you wish you could make your own game. This force is pulling Bungie apart (slowly because it's a great company and new employees are willing) and increasing the pressure to begin a new IP (which has been rumored for a while and is surely under way.
The other force is that of money. Microsoft is not in the business of letting a product die after its most profitable iteration. It won't happen. Halo will be milked for a long time, by people who don't have the power or love to make it great. Bungie has avoided (for now) the inevitable doom that comes with rising expectations and eventual collapse. The simplest thing here is that employees won't be happy working on Halo forever, even if the players would be happy to play forever. In the end, the employees are the ones who make it happen, not the studio they work under, the fans who plead, or the engine they use.

In a perfect world, Bungie would start new IP after Halo 3 (released to critical and consumer acclaim). No Halo games would be made for the rest of the Xbox 360 generation. An arcade game is released by Bungie based on some more new IP. It does well, but most people don't understand why it's not Halo. Bungie releases their new IP two years after Halo 3. Everyone assumes that the next game will be a sequel to that. However, at the E3 (or future equivalent) before the launch of the Xbox 720 (or whatever), Bungie announces the return of the Master Chief.

Also, in an ideal world, Bungie would do two more things. First, community interaction would become much more important to the team. I know it can be done. At the studio where I intern, blogs are posted by the teams at least every week. With 90+ people at Bungie, it would be a small thing to ask one person a week to write a a page about what they work on or to answer one question collected by a Community Manager who can obviously be hired if Bungie can hire 90+ people :/
The other hope is that Bungie goes out of its way to tell the powers greater than it to -blam!- off. Perhaps they do - it seems like it sometimes - but we don't get to hear about it. Don't become another PC corporate stone wall, Bungie. It's not gonna hurt you to tell Microsoft to slow down every now and again and to let us know you did. We want to respect you and buy everything with your logo, but if you don't say anthing and let marketing dictate everything, you're never going to truly be loved by the people who elevate Halodom and the 7th Column above all the other games.

I'm losing faith, but not in Halo 3. Bungie won't last forever, but they'll last beyond Halo if their management knows what they're doing.

  • 09.28.2006 7:29 PM PDT
Subject: Losing faith in bungie
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Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: Pointed Star
I think Bungie should ban free speech on this forum. If you disagree with Bungie or their decisions, then you're banned. I think it may soon come to that.


If you had bothered to read the code of conduct, you'd know that you don't have freedom of speech on this website. I understand you were trying to be a sarcastic jerk, but unfortunately you only made it halfway there. I'll let you figure out which half.

This isn't a free country. This is Bungie.Net. You agreed to our rules when you created an account here. If you don't like the rules, feel free to find another website.


When I say "free speech" I mean the ability of members to express their opinions. It is clear from this thread that certain opinions should be banned from this website, such as any negative opinions about Bungie, its employees, and policies.

  • 09.28.2006 7:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: GotNightmare
this is a scary thing actually. but what i cant get over is WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? why is bungie leting another studio do something that bungie made from the bottom of time?? i just dont get it. with the whole moive thing i just hope that it is not like that star wars trilogy. where every other commercial on tv is Star wars or in this case HALO. i wonder sometimes if bungie is getting cockey. and they think that they are all that. well heads up bungie, look at gears of war, if you dont do well on H3, then you just lost it and you over did it with the whole halo wars game.
That has been the major issue at hand...most of us are wondering why the game was a collaboration...I have yet to receive an answer from a Bungie employee...

  • 09.28.2006 7:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pointed Star
Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: Pointed Star
I think Bungie should ban free speech on this forum. If you disagree with Bungie or their decisions, then you're banned. I think it may soon come to that.


If you had bothered to read the code of conduct, you'd know that you don't have freedom of speech on this website. I understand you were trying to be a sarcastic jerk, but unfortunately you only made it halfway there. I'll let you figure out which half.

This isn't a free country. This is Bungie.Net. You agreed to our rules when you created an account here. If you don't like the rules, feel free to find another website.


When I say "free speech" I mean the ability of members to express their opinions. It is clear from this thread that certain opinions should be banned from this website, such as any negative opinions about Bungie, its employees, and policies.


I actually agree with you. Think about it, a new user joins Bungie.net today and the first thing they see in the Septagon, "the Community Thread", is a giant thread about people losing their faith in Bungie? It will give them a bad impression of the community and of Bungie too. The people at Bungie are making themselves look weak and powerless by not silencing their negative critics. If Bungie allows people to continue to speak out against them on their own forums, then it will only keep getting worse and worse as time goes on.

  • 09.28.2006 8:35 PM PDT
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Ad Astra Per Aspera

Experienced In Life's Little Drama

Posted by: Gargantuan
Posted by: Pointed Star
Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: Pointed Star
I think Bungie should ban free speech on this forum. If you disagree with Bungie or their decisions, then you're banned. I think it may soon come to that.


If you had bothered to read the code of conduct, you'd know that you don't have freedom of speech on this website. I understand you were trying to be a sarcastic jerk, but unfortunately you only made it halfway there. I'll let you figure out which half.

This isn't a free country. This is Bungie.Net. You agreed to our rules when you created an account here. If you don't like the rules, feel free to find another website.


When I say "free speech" I mean the ability of members to express their opinions. It is clear from this thread that certain opinions should be banned from this website, such as any negative opinions about Bungie, its employees, and policies.


I actually agree with you. Think about it, a new user joins Bungie.net today and the first thing they see in the Septagon, "the Community Thread", is a giant thread about people losing their faith in Bungie? It will give them a bad impression of the community and of Bungie too. The people at Bungie are making themselves look weak and powerless by not silencing their negative critics. If Bungie allows people to continue to speak out against them on their own forums, then it will only keep getting worse and worse as time goes on.

Negative feedbacks are feedbacks in their own. If you delete all the negative feedback you have, people generally get more and more pissed. I think bungie should keep this thread up as it points out that they do realize that they have too much to do with limited amount of employees. I honestly think they are doing the best out of any gaming company I've seen. They are not entirely huge, yet they have games that are in the top sellers for years. I've actually brought up Bungie in some of my marketing and business classes and tell about how they are managing on a global scale with only a limited amount of employees. Granted they do have Microsoft backing them now to help relieve some of the work, but most of the game development is Bungie. By allowing for constructive feedback, they are improving themselves. . They have put in massive amounts of work (most which the public will never realize) and still manage to keep some contact with its critizing users. I applaud what Bungie's history, present, and future and wish the best for them.

  • 09.28.2006 9:14 PM PDT

- Mike

Man, I don't understand all the hype when the game hasn't even come out yet. We don't know, maybe Halo wars will be a number one selling xbox game. Making assumptions this early is retarded. Just wait it out, weather you like it or not, maybe "Mr I Lost faith" will be playing Halo Wars more than he thinks he would in a few years...

As for me, I'm excited. I'm a true Halo follower. Since the begining, till the very end. Even if Halo Wars turns out bad. Why? Becuase Halo and bungie has given me more than I asked for. A chance to expand the story I love. I'm very grateful. Can't wait to get my hand on em.

  • 09.28.2006 11:00 PM PDT
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But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Posted by: Great_Pretender
Posted by: MrJames
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Why is this single issue for "another website"?

Plain and simple, Achronos says it is. He runs the site, he does what he pleases. If he says it belongs in another site, it belongs in another site.

Actually it belongs on another site because Bungie isn't making Halo Wars. Ensemble is, and a topic about Ensembles game would, of course, belong on Ensemble's forums, regardless of what the overlord of this site thinks.

-TGP-


But bungie made halo, and their sending the name out, and the results of sending it out all reflect on bungies decisions as a business, so it imo DOES belong on here


Halo Wars is not off topic here (well, in the Underground, usually). However, if you want to actually talk in a place where your concerns might matter, you should do it there.

  • 09.28.2006 11:26 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

I say this.

If the RTS game is as bad as the name they've given it, cool. Take it back.

If Peter Jackson's 'experience' is not what you hoped for, or is terrible take it back.

Then when you've taken them back (or most likely got bored to hell with them after the 2 years you've played them), tear open the plastic seal off of Halo 3.

Win. Win. Win. Are Microsoft and Bungie money-grabbing bastards? Of course they are! Does that make me hate them? Absolutely not. I love Halo, and my 360. I don't hate my iPod because it's made by another huge corporation. And I don't hate my BRAND NEW Gibson Custom .335 because it's made by the worlds Biggest guitar manufacturer! These things are (in one way or another) designed to entertain me. And that they do really well.

Grow up kids. Instead of listening to emo music, and being depressed about everything, go to amazon, and buy 'The Bass-ic Collection' by Stanley Clarke. Then go to your favourite pr0n website, and enjoy yourself.

[Edited on 9/28/2006]

  • 09.28.2006 11:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: Pointed Star
I think Bungie should ban free speech on this forum. If you disagree with Bungie or their decisions, then you're banned. I think it may soon come to that.


If you had bothered to read the code of conduct, you'd know that you don't have freedom of speech on this website. I understand you were trying to be a sarcastic jerk, but unfortunately you only made it halfway there. I'll let you figure out which half.

This isn't a free country. This is Bungie.Net. You agreed to our rules when you created an account here. If you don't like the rules, feel free to find another website.


That's it Shishka, let that anger out! ;)

  • 09.29.2006 1:11 AM PDT

I've been following this thread for a while and thinking about he whole thing. It may seem like this isn't the Bungie that we 'once knew'. It may seem like they are branching off too far. But there is so much we don't know.

It's really kind of strange because I showed the Halo Wars website to my friend the day it came out and we started having a discussion and eventually it led up to the idea that "what if they start pasting Halo on lunch boxes (something that was actually brought up many pages ago) and putting it in happy meals". The term "degrading" was used. It just didn't seem right. I mean, they have this wacky, third party Halo Portal or whatever for cell phones, and it just doesn't seem to live up to "the Bungie name". And I must admit, if it ever came to the point where Halo was pasted onto a lunch box by a third party, I would be pretty dissapointed.

I guess this recent turn of events has something about it that makes people doubt certain aspects of Bungie.

But there is so much we don't know. There is so much they are not telling us. And I think we're really jumping to conclusions here.


There was this video on Channel 9 (for those of you who don't know, Channel 9 is a community website where people from Microsoft and regular people can hang out. If Microsoft was the castle, and if we were the people in the town below, Channel 9 is the keyhole looking in. It's mind numbing (that said, I wouldn't encourage you to go over and sign up unless you're a technical type)). This video was an interview with Mat Naguchi (uber awesome Bungie tools programmer / unbounded rage) and he brought something up which I think can be applied to this whole situation (I'm going to paraphrase what he said, so don't choke me if it's off). It was along the lines of this:

"It's really easy to take something that you don't understand, and then take a small part that you do understand to explain the part that you don't understand."

Usually, it's ok to do something like that, because that's how we think and reason and draw conclusions. But in this case, there really isn't enough information.

And bringing this whole thing back into the light of "Losing faith in Bungie," just to let everyone know, I still trust them on this. I have high hopes for Halo 3 and the RTS and the Movie and Peter Jacksons interactive mind dropping (or whatever it is). I'm looking forward to it because it should be good. For sure Bungie made the decision to let Ensemble make a Halo based RTS long before the announcement, and so we've only learned about it now.

Anyway, I'm going to stop now before I say anything really stupid or wrong.

I hope I didn't take that quote out of context. I mean, yeah, Mat's from Bungie and stuff,and I honestly wasn't fishing around looking for a Bungie employee to quote, but it has significance. And I hope this doesn't end up feeding the frienzy. And I really don't think that I can add much to this whole debate because now there are so many different oppinions and I just offered yet another one, but that's the way it is.

I could post a link up to the video, but that would lead everyone to "the front door of Microsoft" (crud, I let the cat out of the bag, again). You can find a link to it on the Bungie Studios page at Wikipedia. It's around 19 minutes into the video (let me warn you, everything else in the video probably wouldn't be very interesting to most people);

  • 09.29.2006 1:43 AM PDT

-§kipper

How about we thinkg about it from outside the halo story line. Halo was made way back when the xbox was just coming out. The xbox 360 is better in pretty much every way than the xbox, and theres been some time for techniques and such for developing to be mastered. Maybe things that we see in the Halo Wars trailer were not in the original halo because of time constraints, lack of the power to do so, and other things linked to working with an inferior machine to the one Halo Wars will be on.

Also this is a trailer. It's not ment to give you details or be correct in every way, it's ment to show you that the game exists, and give a general basis of what it's about. Chances are this thing was made last second, so perhaps they didn't have time to give all the elites and such weapons, we simply don't know. To criticize this game because of the trailer is ignorant, because everything you see in there could already of changed and we would have no idea. Just wait for more details to come out, and be patient.

  • 09.29.2006 4:53 AM PDT

Gimme Dat Grip.

Music is Life. Live a fun one. Listen to Ska.
__________________
Can you dig it?

Bungie is working on world domination guys. Who wants to go play some Halo in the mean-time? ^__^

(meaning let everything be, don't complain, and sit back, an enjoy what we do get to see).

I wish people could just be that simple sometimes..

  • 09.29.2006 7:11 AM PDT

A witty signature.

I find this impossibly truthful, but JAF and Joey are right at the same time.

Mind boggling how I, or others, could think that.

At least the games are in relatively good hands, gameplay wise....
Posted by: JoeyBagaDonu7s
Bungie is working on world domination guys. Who wants to go play some Halo in the mean-time? ^__^

(meaning let everything be, don't complain, and sit back, an enjoy what we do get to see).

I wish people could just be that simple sometimes..

  • 09.29.2006 9:03 AM PDT

SB-117

Posted by: JAY132
I say this.

If the RTS game is as bad as the name they've given it, cool. Take it back.

If Peter Jackson's 'experience' is not what you hoped for, or is terrible take it back.

Then when you've taken them back (or most likely got bored to hell with them after the 2 years you've played them), tear open the plastic seal off of Halo 3.

Win. Win. Win. Are Microsoft and Bungie money-grabbing bastards? Of course they are! Does that make me hate them? Absolutely not. I love Halo, and my 360. I don't hate my iPod because it's made by another huge corporation. And I don't hate my BRAND NEW Gibson Custom .335 because it's made by the worlds Biggest guitar manufacturer! These things are (in one way or another) designed to entertain me. And that they do really well.

Grow up kids. Instead of listening to emo music, and being depressed about everything, go to amazon, and buy 'The Bass-ic Collection' by Stanley Clarke. Then go to your favourite pr0n website, and enjoy yourself.

Yep.

The more Halo the better. The more games they make, the more entertainment for the fans. Sonic and Final Fantasy have been milked to hell... who cares? I'll gladly pay some microsoft points for the marketplace remake of 'Sonic' and like it, but I won't buy 'Shadow the Hedgehog' because it's crap. I'll buy those Final Fantasy remakes for my DS and play them on the train to uni, but I have no use for a replica Masamune... yet.

Something > Nothing.

If there's a game or piece of merchandise I don't want, I won't get it. I got the HGN, Halo 1 chief figure etc. but I didn't go out and buy Dead or Alive for one character, I didn't get the limited edition Flood spore figure; because I don't want them. You don't have to buy Halo Wars if it's not good, it's not going to interfere with Halo 3 so what's the problem?

Halo has masses and masses of swag already. 4 Books, a Graphic Novel, Action-figures, TV shirts, Key Rings, Pens, Mugs the list goes on. They've had companies making replica Spartan armour too. I don't see these new games as anything different than any of the above.

Bungie can milk Halo all they like in my eyes, as long as they don't do something truely stupid like make a Halo 3D platformer or do a spin-off with Bowser as the main boss, I could care less.

  • 09.29.2006 9:31 AM PDT
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In general, Bungie.net and the Halo franchise are getting better. For a long time, we kept on reading about the search feature and the next project without seeing any results. Changes in B.net seem to happen much faster now: search feature, new forum, reviving dead forums, new game announcements . . . Life is good.

  • 09.29.2006 9:49 AM PDT