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  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie

Posted by: Achilles1108


Thank you. Somebody else that realizes what I am talking about. I know if I was those guys my friends and family would come before posting on this site. If I have very little time already I am not going to sacrifice it to appease forum goers who have nothing better to do than think that I am only here for their pleasure. When some of you guys and gals get older, get married, have kids, a huge amount of bills and other priorities on top of a busy job then you will see how high posting on a forum will be on your priorities list.


I was just thinking the same thing this morning, I think allot of people on these forums don't really understand how life is. I don't mean this as an insult at all but the majority of people on here are students and kids (not that I have a problem with that at all) who don't understand the "real world".

I'm constantly amazed how much people complain on these forums, but how about we flip it around for a second. How would YOU react if your work was held up to as much scrutiny and criticism as bungies is. Now I'm not saying that we should all praise bungie , far from it in fact. But we should be able to see it from their perspective. How motivated would you be to post if you knew that as soon as you did people would rush to ask you a question, beg for information or tell you your doing a crap job? Not very I'm guessing. Plus I think lots of people forget that KP posts quite a bit as does Shishka.

I think people just expect too much.

  • 09.30.2006 8:57 AM PDT
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we don't expect too much...we're on a freaking forum...it's only when you look at the opinion of the masses it seems like high expectations...

  • 09.30.2006 8:59 AM PDT

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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Why am I continually urged by some people to post complaints about Halo Wars on Ensembles' site, yet all of these optomistic Halo Wars threads are still active on THIS site? It does not make any sense...

You're not, not at least in any post I've read.

I can say that if you have concerns about game mechanics, posting about it here is pointless; it's Ensemble doing the coding, so it's to Ensemble you should be expressing your concerns.

I can also say, from a purely personal standpoint, that I'm sick and tired of people second-guessing material based upon a few snippets of a cinematic. So a battle rifle sound effect is in the trailer; does that mean that they're BR-55s? Did the UNSC magically invent the battle rifle without previous models or precedent? That's not how it happens in the real world, so why assume it's so in the make-believe world?

But of course, the all-powerful prognosticators can already tell that the game's going to be a failure despite not having seen ONE SECOND OF GAMEPLAY... and they can tell the story will suck because of ONE BAD LINE OF DIALOG in a trailer... and they can tell that continuity is busted because of a bunch of jumped conclusions.

I'm tired of people assuming the worst of Bungie. Dammit, I thought this was a fan community. I thought we were here because we actually enjoy what Bungie's put out in the past... and that, based on that body of experience, we could extend to them some benefit of the doubt on these things.

Once again, I'm not saying that Bungie is perfect. I'm not saying that HW is going to be awsome. I'm not saying that people should withhold constructive criticism, or uncritically buy everything with the Bungie stamp. I'm just saying that I'm mightily sick and tired of the fault finders who seem to look for any reason at all to jump on a soapbox and scream about how the "true fans" are being betrayed.

Maybe that means I've sold out myself, or drunk the kool-ade at Jonestown-by-the-Sea. I hope not. But I can't help but think that the forums would be a much more pleasant place if people gave Bungie Studios (and Ensemble) a little credit for knowing what they're doing.

-- Steve'll also point out, once again, that the above is purely his own opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of Bungie Studios, Microsoft, Bill Gates, or Your Mom.

  • 09.30.2006 9:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: Anton P Nym
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Why am I continually urged by some people to post complaints about Halo Wars on Ensembles' site, yet all of these optomistic Halo Wars threads are still active on THIS site? It does not make any sense...

You're not, not at least in any post I've read.
Perhaps "urged" is the wrong word choice..."recommended" I suppose would be a better choice...

Achronos "recommended" that I post complaints on Ensemble's site...yet it does not make sense to me that all these Halo Wars threads are allowed on several of Bungie's forums even though Bungie is not doing the actual coding...

I can say that if you have concerns about game mechanics, posting about it here is pointless; it's Ensemble doing the coding, so it's to Ensemble you should be expressing your concerns.I understand, but how come other discussions about Halo Wars are allowed here if complaints should be directed to Ensemble?


I can also say, from a purely personal standpoint, that I'm sick and tired of people second-guessing material based upon a few snippets of a cinematic. So a battle rifle sound effect is in the trailer; does that mean that they're BR-55s? Did the UNSC magically invent the battle rifle without previous models or precedent? That's not how it happens in the real world, so why assume it's so in the make-believe world?I am going to assume that I am included in the "second-guessers" category; that being said, I must say that I stand corrected on my previous battle rifle statement...James explained it to me...
But the one thing I don't understand is how everything in Halo Wars looks so advanced, even more advanced than the stuff in halo 1...elites willingly deactivating camo and whatnot...if it's a minor complaint, then so be it...but this seems like another of those star wars instances where "Episode I" has more advanced technology than the original trilogy, which took place generations after Episode I...


But of course, the all-powerful prognosticators can already tell that the game's going to be a failure despite not having seen ONE SECOND OF GAMEPLAY... and they can tell the story will suck because of ONE BAD LINE OF DIALOG in a trailer... and they can tell that continuity is busted because of a bunch of jumped conclusions.I am unaware of the dialogue issue...
And my main complaint is not all the petty stuff...my main complaint is that Bungie isn't making the game...I'm not sure if it was Microsoft's decision to allow Ensemble to make Halo Wars, so I won't dwell on this point...

I'm tired of people assuming the worst of Bungie. Dammit, I thought this was a fan community. I thought we were here because we actually enjoy what Bungie's put out in the past... and that, based on that body of experience, we could extend to them some benefit of the doubt on these things.I began assuming the worst so that I could be ready for anything...I began losing faith, just as the thread creator explained...


Once again, I'm not saying that Bungie is perfect. I'm not saying that HW is going to be awsome. I'm not saying that people should withhold constructive criticism, or uncritically buy everything with the Bungie stamp. I'm just saying that I'm mightily sick and tired of the fault finders who seem to look for any reason at all to jump on a soapbox and scream about how the "true fans" are being betrayed.I don't consider myself a true fan....I'm simply a Halo fan...


Maybe that means I've sold out myself, or drunk the kool-ade at Jonestown-by-the-Sea. I hope not. But I can't help but think that the forums would be a much more pleasant place if people gave Bungie Studios (and Ensemble) a little credit for knowing what they're doing.Well, I have taken this into consideration...I just don't see how a Halo game made NOT by Bungie could be any good...but I'll wait and see, I suppose...

-- Steve'll also point out, once again, that the above is purely his own opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of Bungie Studios, Microsoft, Bill Gates, or Your Mom.It's all cool, don't worry man.

  • 09.30.2006 10:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: Gargantuan
Posted by: Achilles1108
Am I one of the few people that think that Frankie and the others at Bungie need a bit of time to themselves? I mean these guys are working on Halo3, Halo2 Vista, a Halo movie, Halo Wars, and they just got finished with the HGN, and of course the Ghosts of Onyx. Now I know quite a few of these are in an advisory role but it does take time and these guys and gals have friends and families.

I know that you guys want more interaction with them but remember that "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". If it means a lesser degree to them posting or a bit more "fluff" in the updates then I say so be it. They are human after all and the world doesn't stop turning if Frankie and the boys decide not to come out and play.


No. If anything they should have less leisure time. The world is waiting for Halo 3, and unless the guys at Bungie want to be labeled as a bunch of liars for not reaching a release date in 2007, they should work no less than 6 days a week and 12 hours a day. Halo comes first. Friends and families are secondary.


I agree. The guys at Bungie have no right to spend time with their families until Halo 3 is complete. If I was in charge at Microsoft, I'd make sure that they aren't slacking off by doing wasteful things such as taking breaks, being with their families, and going home to sleep. If they didn't want to live like this, then they shouldn't have made Halo in the first place.

  • 09.30.2006 10:37 AM PDT
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whats Halo Wars/

  • 09.30.2006 10:59 AM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Vitamin, did you ever read the books? If you did, then you'd know that the camo can be activated and deactivated at will by the user. That function is most likely not in Halo 1 for gameplay reasons.

Do you have any idea how stupid it would be if someone made active camo, but didn't include a function to turn it on or off?

Posted by: Pointed Star
Posted by: Gargantuan

No. If anything they should have less leisure time. The world is waiting for Halo 3, and unless the guys at Bungie want to be labeled as a bunch of liars for not reaching a release date in 2007, they should work no less than 6 days a week and 12 hours a day. Halo comes first. Friends and families are secondary.


I agree. The guys at Bungie have no right to spend time with their families until Halo 3 is complete. If I was in charge at Microsoft, I'd make sure that they aren't slacking off by doing wasteful things such as taking breaks, being with their families, and going home to sleep. If they didn't want to live like this, then they shouldn't have made Halo in the first place.


*sigh* The Bungie community has quite a repertoire of undesirable qualities. Elitism, stupidity, ignorance, bad grammar, selfishness, and one more to add to that list: Fascism?

[Edited on 9/30/2006]

  • 09.30.2006 11:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Nedus
Vitamin, did you ever read the books? If you did, then you'd know that the camo can be activated and deactivated at will by the user. That function is most likely not in Halo 1 for gameplay reasons.

Do you have any idea how stupid it would be if someone made active camo, but didn't include a function to turn it on or off?


I was trying to envisage that and it made me laugh... a lot.

  • 09.30.2006 11:53 AM PDT
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Why are so many people pissed that they are trying to expand Halo beyond the FPS? I think it's an awesome idea, and I bet whatever Wingnut is coming up with will rock our socks. Halo is a very big name in the gaming industry and the more money they can get out of it, the more bungie will have available to put into development of whatever comes after Halo. Why limit Halo if it's worth more?

And seriously, it's Ensemble Studios, I still play Age of Empires II, and I am sure that Halo Wars will be just as good or better.

  • 09.30.2006 12:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pointed Star
Posted by: Gargantuan
Posted by: Achilles1108
Am I one of the few people that think that Frankie and the others at Bungie need a bit of time to themselves? I mean these guys are working on Halo3, Halo2 Vista, a Halo movie, Halo Wars, and they just got finished with the HGN, and of course the Ghosts of Onyx. Now I know quite a few of these are in an advisory role but it does take time and these guys and gals have friends and families.

I know that you guys want more interaction with them but remember that "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". If it means a lesser degree to them posting or a bit more "fluff" in the updates then I say so be it. They are human after all and the world doesn't stop turning if Frankie and the boys decide not to come out and play.


No. If anything they should have less leisure time. The world is waiting for Halo 3, and unless the guys at Bungie want to be labeled as a bunch of liars for not reaching a release date in 2007, they should work no less than 6 days a week and 12 hours a day. Halo comes first. Friends and families are secondary.


I agree. The guys at Bungie have no right to spend time with their families until Halo 3 is complete. If I was in charge at Microsoft, I'd make sure that they aren't slacking off by doing wasteful things such as taking breaks, being with their families, and going home to sleep. If they didn't want to live like this, then they shouldn't have made Halo in the first place.


Wow, you're being sarcastic, right?! Oh, you're not...wow. I cannot belive you comended that guy on his fascist opinion. Not everything revolves around you getting Halo3 for Christmas, kid! People have lives, they work hard to make awesome games for you and you have the NERVE to say something like this!? I don't think this forum is so much about losing faith in Bungie as it is about some people never having any faith in Bungie at all! I wouldn't visit these forums either if I had to put up with crap like this! Who needs enemies when you have "fans" like you! >_<

  • 09.30.2006 4:29 PM PDT
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THE OVERLORD HAS SPOKEN. Now let us flee this over replied thread.

  • 09.30.2006 5:10 PM PDT
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Losing faith in bungie

Yes, but people starting losing faith in bungie years ago. Bungie now isn't the Bungie of 8 years ago; they may still make cool games but I don't think anyone should be surprised/shocked by what's happening. Microsoft see profit in continuing the Halo franchise until the cows come home and that's what's going to happen. Bungie may have creative oversight for the various projects but that's about it. It goes without saying that their community interaction/standards/etc have been significantly changed but that's the downside of being owned by a multinational megacorporation.

  • 09.30.2006 5:42 PM PDT
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so...whats halo wars

  • 09.30.2006 10:33 PM PDT

Posted by: Shadowstep889
It has the word "Halo" in its title. That means an automatic campaign playthrough for me.

I blame Micro$oft for this bungling. (for lack of a better word).

  • 09.30.2006 11:34 PM PDT

-§kipper

Who cares if they are trying to make money if they make a good game? Do you not want money? Would you turn down more of it if some one told you could get more? I don't know about you guys but I'm going to try and make as much money as possible in my career. Like every company in the world you strive to be the best, but in the end it's a business, video games included. I'm not saying I think tis is about the money, I'm happy we are getting two more doses of Halo than we expected, but for those who are complaining about them milking the cow can you really blame them?

  • 10.01.2006 5:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rant
They became what Tycho from PA says "ordinace" in the console wars.


Sorry, I know this is from page 1, but I find the reference to Tycho humorous.

Besides being a PA charachter, you may recall that Tycho was one of the three A.I.s onboard the Marathon. Reanimated by the Pfhor to serve their whims.

See a correlation?
:P

  • 10.01.2006 5:50 PM PDT
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final fantasy isnt really a series, none of the games are connected except for the name, and company. might as well say final FPS: doom, counterstrike, halflife, halo, quake.

as for the halo universe there are a bunch of spartans not jsut the master cheif so why should his story be the only important one. for the halo wars trailer at the end, "This is spartan group omega" onscreen is a large group of spartans. my only concern for halo wars is how do you controll an RTS with a controller.

as for the peter jackson thing i have no idea. havent seen or heard anything, athough im wondering about will the halo movie just turn out to be another scifi movie or will it have some sort of content that is worth viewing.

  • 10.02.2006 2:29 AM PDT

Posted by: WhiffleBallTony
I'm not losing faith in Bungie, I just think they should've kept their partnership with Macintosh. They basically turned on Mac and joined the enemy. Just imagine, a Mac video game system, that would be heaven.

There never was a partnership! =P

back to the matter at hand (I'm going to sum it up short):

Sometimes change can be good, sometimes bad. I think this change is for the better.

  • 10.02.2006 4:18 AM PDT

Gimme Dat Grip.

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Posted by: RidiculousX


Sometimes change can be good, sometimes bad. I think this change is for the better.


Yes. I just can't wait for this weeks update. I have a good feeling that it will make me smile. I hope anyways.

  • 10.02.2006 6:46 AM PDT
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You Know guys and gals, it all comes down to this: On this track, the Halo universe will no longer refer to the original story and backstory of the covenant-human conflict, but rather to the financial empire that Microsoft has/will have tortured out of it. And that makes me really sad.

  • 10.02.2006 7:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Halcyon Heren
You Know guys and gals, it all comes down to this: On this track, the Halo universe will no longer refer to the original story and backstory of the covenant-human conflict, but rather to the financial empire that Microsoft has/will have tortured out of it. And that makes me really sad.


Has Bungie dissapointed us so far? Why are we all here if Bungie has done us so wrong? Halo was awesome, Halo 2 was awesome, albeit some minor changes to gameplay that irked us a bit. Some were able to appreciate the game and adapt. overlooking some minor flaws that were outwieghed by significant improvements. Others, sadly created hate websites. All we've seen is a trailer of for Halo Wars. Bungie has made lots of Halo merchandise; action figures, hoodies, handbags, mugs, soundtracks, comic books, and various swag. Nobody complained then!! Now that they are making more GAMES(which is what they do), people think they are selling out?! They have left these projects in good hands! Halo movie: Peter Jackson and WETA workshop! Halo Wars: Ensemble studios, maker of quality rts for many years. They haven't handed the torches over too just anybody, and they are still very much involved in these side projects! Rawwr! ( i'm done now)

  • 10.02.2006 9:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Halcyon Heren
You Know guys and gals, it all comes down to this: On this track, the Halo universe will no longer refer to the original story and backstory of the covenant-human conflict, but rather to the financial empire that Microsoft has/will have tortured out of it. And that makes me really sad.


Can't the same be said of Star Wars, Batman, Superman, or X-Men?

I don't mind the commercialism as long as the products are excellent. I don't mind if they make a profit.

  • 10.02.2006 11:17 AM PDT
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Osmosis!

People making a living, what are you gonna do? Kinda sucks...

  • 10.02.2006 5:50 PM PDT

Get Marathon Here
Get Marathon 2 and Infinity Here

What I am losing faith in is the B.net community.

The glass isn't half empty with them, no, the glass is full of radioactive goop from the factories of Microsoft.

I hear all this naysaying over how Halo should have stopped at Halo 1, how Halo 2 isn't true to Halo, how Bungie doesn't listen to their fans, blaw blaw blaw.

Does Bungie force you to play Halo 2 if you don't like it? No. Does Bungie force you to do anything? No.

Did Bungie make some sacrafices in the move to join Microsoft? Yes, they did it to survive as a company, and to better bring their product to the people.

Have they lost their roots? I don't see how, Bungie makes awsome games, always have, and though the employees may not post as much in the forums as they once did, they are busy people, and hiring speakerheads just to go around the forums answering questions won't make things better either, as people will either want more, or when they are forced to keep saying that they can't give more info, people will declair that Bungie is just jerking with them.

Has Bungie sold out? No, they just make products and expect people to pay for them. The Halo Portal? What kind of respectable person would spend time using such a thing? In my view if you want to use it, then hell ya your going to have to pay for it, and jump through whatever loops are in your way. You don't want to jump through the hoops, then don't.

Halo fans have been whining for a Halo movie, and a Halo RTS, and more Halo whatever, since Halo 1 came out. So now that Bungie is doing what is necessary to do these things, their selling out? To me it looks like they are giving the fans what they want. You personally don't want to play a Halo RTS? Then don't! Wait for somone to write up the story and then read that if you don't want to miss parts of the Haloverse, don't -blam!- because others will have having something that you don't want in the first place. That's like a kid who is allergic to penut butter whining that he can't have peanut butter but the kid at the other end of the table can.

The Halo Movie is being made by the best Bungie can get, and by "best" I mean people who get Halo almost as good as Bungie does, and have the tallent to bring it to life in a film. Do you not trust Bungie? Why not? What have then done to compromise your trust? Made Halo 2? Grow up, if Bungie wants to make Halo 2 then they will make Halo 2, if you knew anything about Bungie's contract with Microsoft you would know that Microsoft can't make Bungie make any particular game, let alone how to make it. Bungie knows what they are doing and if anything have proven they are the most protective of Halo out of anyone.

Halo Wars? Being made by the second best, if not best, RTS/RTT game makers in history, and according to the Bungie formula.

Those of no faith saw the trailer for Halo Wars and immediately sharpened your pitchforks and lit your torches over what you think are inconsistancies. Have you played the game? Do you know the history behind what you see? No, you don't. There are plenty of extremely logical explinations as to why we see Battle Rifles and Halo 2-esk armour, myself along with a number of others have stated them a few times now both here and over at the halowars.com forums. Do you own Halo? Are you writing the story? No, so how dare you delcare what is and is not canon? You selfish bastards think Halo belongs to you and that you have a say in how the story goes? It sickens me to hear moderators of all people act this way. Halo belongs to Bungie, not you, and if your not faithful enough or patient enough to wait and see what the explanation is for things you think are wrong or don't fit, then you are no more a Bungie fan than the 12 year olds that fill up the Halo 3 forums with spam about how they want to dual wield swords.

When Bungie screws up, then you can spew your doomsday speaches about how Bungie is losing quality or about how Bungie is a sellout and doesn't care about Halo or the fans and only the money and being Microsoft's -blam!-.

If you have expectations of ANYTHING that Bungie does aside from that it will be awsome, then you are a fool. And guess what, Bungie just might go and make a game that you don't like or enjoy as much as past games. You know what? That's life, just because you may not like it doesn't mean there arn't a thousand other people just as inteligent and dedicated to Bungie as you that think it's the best thing since pie, and can go and make great fan fictions and films and groups with deep and meaninfull discussions.

Am I an oldschool Bungie fan? Not in the sense of me actually having played Bungie games prior to the release of Halo, I hadn't even heard of them, but then again I didn't do much in the way of gaming either. But I am playing throug the Marathon games and intend on getting me an old Mac so that I can play the rest that haven't been ported to Windows yet.

But the fact that I have not been a member of this community as long as some doesn't mean I can't see what is happening, it is just sad that so many of the older member's here see Bungie's sucess, or perceved wrongdoings, as reasons to lose faith, when we have seen nothing but great things come from them.

Worries are one thing, outright declaring that Bungie has lost their way is another.

  • 10.03.2006 1:19 PM PDT
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Well said Synthmilk, people need to stop jumping the gun! That post was even longer than some of mine, lol. As stuntmutt said in is comic, " If they want Wahhh, we'll give em Wahhhhh!

  • 10.03.2006 1:32 PM PDT