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  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie
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Posted by: Zee JollyRoger
This is starting to sound a bit like the Halo 3 Forum, making conclusions before reading the facts.

Fact 1) None of us have played these games or new Halo projects

Fact 2) Bungie is working with both teams on both projects, quality and quantity will be ensured

So I think everyone should just wait and see.

As I posted before, it isn't a matter of quality. It's a matter of Halo being slapped onto "every lunch box and then being sold".

I never like it when a franchise is being "milked out". Don't ask me why, I just don't. And with Halo, I feel that Bungie is at least partially responsible for those "lunch box sales". I'm not mad or anything. I'm glad that HW is being made by another studio, so I expect Bungie to do something completely different after Halo 3, but it be nice if Bungie would interact a bit more with the fans again.

  • 09.27.2006 12:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
1 - You compared the Halo series to the FF series as if it's a bad thing. FF has been around for ages, and while I don't like the game there are hundreds of thousands of people who love most if not all of the games that come out. Hell any video game company should pray for FF's staying power.

2 - You're trashing a game of which you've seen all of 30 seconds of....and not even game footage at that. Halo Wars could be the next Starcraft for all you know, which in case you haven't played could be action packed (assuming you were playing good people) and had a pretty good story line.

The rest is just you commenting on rumors....nothing else.


As for the community interaction, I'm whatever about that.

1. In my honest opinion, FF sucks. But that's not the point.
2. You are correct, it could be an awesome game (even though the fact that it's been made by the guys who created AOE frightens me). But even that isn't the real issue for me. What i hate most is the fact that Halo is becoming a big fat cow that has been milked just a few times too many.

Oh well, for now it's a matter of giving everyone the benefit of doubt. I don't want to bash things if I don't even know it, but my faith in Halo has taken a big dent, and even my faith in Bungie has a few scratches now.


When I read the Halo RTS was being made, I instantly thought "omg slower Halo 3?!" Then, I read ensemble studios. Next to the original starcraft team, I could not pick a better group. The Age of Empires series is one of my favorite! But uhm, you seem rather dissappointed in the pick. I understand your fear of Halo becoming overused and not so exclusive, and yeah, I agree. But what's so bad about ensemble? Those guys are great.

Ah, and, the peter jackson thing? Uughh... 3 Halo FPSes made by Bungie is enough. An RTS is pushing it, especially when it's not made by Bungie.... a prequel, or a side story, using a "new" type of storytelling, made by someone other than Bungie? That's just wrong. Especially since it's made by someone who's never made a game. I get the feeling this is MS' doing, or mayhaps the Bungie guys are losing their touch, or their poverty. I'm not sure which. =P

In all seriousness, I think I'm more dissappointed by these announcements than excited. Bah. After thinking about it... it's quite scary.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:09 PM PDT
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ಠ_ಠ

I'm sort of disappointed with the announcement of yet a different Halo game, but at the same time greatly appreciate that I know it's being made from a trustworthy company that won't turn it into crap. Sadly, I'm beginning to feel it's heading down that path.

No doubt most of the fans here on this website, the very home, are being ignored. It's great they'd reach farther out to Bungie or Halo communities elsewhere, but should at least interact with the ones here at home, no matter how crappy it is.


[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:09 PM PDT
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I too think the same way of what the movie will turn out to be. Especially since it's been hinted that it will be PG-13. Even though the games are rated M +17. But the rating is just a small concern for me. I'm thinking about how the story will play out. The majority of video game to movie transitions haven't been good.

I'm don't know what to think of the two new games. It might not be the same without Bungie as the lead developer. Maybe it will be better. I'm gonna stay optimisitic though. I just wish the side project was Pimps at Sea that was announced today as an RTS and not Halo.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:11 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
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"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Normally, from an outside position, I'd agree with you. But I know a little bit more about the internal goings on than you, so please consider a different perspective:

But please understand that we are very protective of Halo. While you may think it is being stretched too thin, we turn down way more pitches than we accept. The movie only came about after we were able to strike a deal that gave us the level of quality control we wanted. Admittedly, it could still suck, but now it has a fairly good chance of being a quality film versus the usual "fire and forget" quality of many video game to movie transfers.

The Halo RTS was also something that we were initially resistant to, but when Ensemble came along, well, you know the rest. Remember - we are gamers too, and we're not going to give our blessing to a crappy idea. Of course, that doesn't guarentee success - making a fun game is hard. But Ensemble is good at what they do, and we are actively involved in not only giving them feedback on their game, but also making sure the fiction matches up with what they are doing. We see as a way to tell more of the story than we would otherwise be able to. It is also going to be interesting to see them take it back to where the Halo concept originally started (it was a RTS game first, then changed to a 3rd person shooter, then finally a first person shooter now).

The best part is that you are the ultimate judge - if you don't like the non-core stuff (anything outside the 3 Bungie made games), then don't buy them. The 3 games will stand on their own. But for those that do like RTS games, we have some Halo for them, just like we'll have some Halo for the movie goer, and some Halo for readers in the books, etc.

As for the comments regarding Frankie and Sketch's participation in these forums... well, that is two fold. First, Sketch is always busy managing the details of our PR and marketing - we have to stay on top of that at all times to make sure marketing is how we like it. Otherwise, those guys do their own thing, and if we weren't involved, we can't really have input into what they do. Frankie, furthermore, spends a lot of time working with the story guys, making sure story continuity is preserved and make sure our fiction rocks. One of the reasons KP was hired was to deal with his increased responsibility. I do try to stay involved in the forums, but there is no one who's job it is to do that - we all have our own "real jobs." That being said, maybe we'll eventually be able to hire "a KP" person for Sketch... but those types of people are very hard to find.

Meanwhile, all I can ask is that you trust us to do the right thing. I also trust that you'll tell us if you think something sucks, but I ask that you wait until you experience that thing first. After all, it isn't like Halo 3 is being affected by these external partners. It is part of Sketch's job, after all, to insulate the guys working on the game from this kind of thing.

I don't think we are Microsoft's -blam!-, as you call it. We are part of them, true, but while the realities of doing business sometimes force a hard choice here and there, that would be the case if were still independently owned... and it would like occur far more often than does now (which is rarely). Microsoft grants us a lot of freedom to do what we think is right for Halo, because it makes good business sense to use our expertise. So far, I think the relationship has produced some good results, don't you think?

  • 09.27.2006 12:11 PM PDT

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand i agree to a certain extent with everyone who feels like bungie has sold out, BUT on the other hand they are also doing what alot of people have been begging for for a long time now in delivering a RTS in the halo universe. So i guess that on one hand they are making the hard choice and selling out their baby.

However this does mean that bungie will be free to take on another direction after halo 3. Whos knows we might get something else that alot of people have been asking for (ie marathon, PID or even Pheonix remakes for the 360) or perhaps they might give birth to a whole new game.

So my feeling is that yes this might be the start of the whoring out of halo, but this could also be the begining of something else just as special.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:12 PM PDT
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Not to compare this to Star Wars, but look at how many games lucasarts has put out. If you have a great background story, the games are limitless, which is probably what will happen to halo. RTS for a console just doesn't seem right, but I've never played one on a console.

Peace out

  • 09.27.2006 12:16 PM PDT
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Thanks for the reassurance Achronos, it wasn't so much the RTS i was feeling worried about, more the Jackson-led Halo game(s) from Wingnut. The RTS i'm looking forward to, I mean it's being made by probably the best RTS maker ever, but the name... sucks. Obviously the Wingnut games haven't been announced yet, but handing over the halo franchise to an unproven company led by a team with no experience in games other than playing them themselves could prove to be a mistake. Reading the Halo 3 forum gives you at least 400 reasons why gamers shouldn't be involved in a game's design; we're idiots.

This was more left-over rage from the blatant commercial crap of the Halo Portal, and the news that the Halo Movie is almost certainly going to be PG13, which of course, by the UK's standards, pretty much makes it a kiddy film, unless we get a re-cut version for our censors.

I'm still partially worried about Halo 3, also. I mean, we heard all this amazing stuff about Halo 2, then it was rushed out and disappointing, I still play Halo 1, whereas Halo 2 is sitting gathering dust in its sexy metal collector's case. I did, in fact, tell a lie on the RTS. I'm seriously worried about it; Ensemble might be good at what they do, but then, so were Gearbox, and Halo PC is up there with C&C:Generals on the list of crappy PC FPSs that should never have been made the way they were. It's the same reason i worry for Halo 2 PC; all this could easily go balls-up and produce some more franchise cack.

  • 09.27.2006 12:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rant
Posted by: DARTHALTHAUS531
Not to compare this to Star Wars, but look at how many games lucasarts has put out. If you have a great background story, the games are limitless, which is probably what will happen to halo. RTS for a console just doesn't seem right, but I've never played one on a console.

Peace out


And now think of all the crap games they put out.

On another point, the backlash to the RTS is surprising. When a fan made verison was being built people rejoiced, and when MS shut them down there was a huge public outcry. Why was MS shutting something down the fans wanted? But now that Bungie has given its blessing to a professional studio with experience to handle the same project its going to suck? How does that work?

Because people spent years of their time for no pay, for something they love, for it to be shut-down in one fell-swoop.

I would say that I think people have the idea that users wanted a Halo RTS Mod, and so they loved it, but Bungie/MS couldn't have that, and brought out an "official" version so they can milk their already mentioned "cash cow". However, I don't think that, but that would be my interpretation of what I think people are feeling.

  • 09.27.2006 12:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
Normally, from an outside position, I'd agree with you. But I know a little bit more about the internal goings on than you, so please consider a different perspective...
Thankyou, Achronos, for a swift and civil reply; I feel I'm doing you an injustice by posting so little of it! You have to understand, however, that because of the lack of community interaction from the Bungie crew, all we have (even the most loyal and Oldschool Bungie fans) is an "outside position".

We need, very much, to be 'back in the loop'. In my opinion, at least: Reassurances in front page updates can only do so much, and if the fanbase feels (as we do now, I feel confident in speaking for many forum-goers and fans) that our concerns are not being heard, then we are quickly going to lose faith in the Studio. Which is a huge shame.

The rapid changes and lack of community interaction mean that we only see from the outside, and don't feel 'connected' to the inside in the same way we used to.

  • 09.27.2006 12:27 PM PDT

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I'll still say I'm pissed. After what happened to the folks doing Halogen, I really don't feel Ensemble or Microsoft deserves a dime of my money. If they'd have let Halogen continue, I guarantee more people would have bought "Halo Wars" as it is now, I think they shot themselves in the foot with that. Of course, I could be entirely wrong, considering the idiotic kids with disposable income that buy anything these days with no sense of decency. I doubt the storyline would clash, and I know the gameplay would be different, so why not let them both exist...

Sincerely,
Sorrowful in South Jersey

  • 09.27.2006 12:36 PM PDT

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Halo Wars, however good it looks, just anhillated any respect I had for M$, and a lot of respect towards bungie. Reading that story felt like being stabbed in the back. How can M$ go take down a good RTS, and bring in their own puppet? Damn you M$. I feel abandoned.....

  • 09.27.2006 12:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I'll still say I'm pissed. After what happened to the folks doing Halogen, I really don't feel Ensemble or Microsoft deserves a dime of my money. If they'd have let Halogen continue, I guarantee more people would have bought "Halo Wars" as it is now, I think they shot themselves in the foot with that. Of course, I could be entirely wrong, considering the idiotic kids with disposable income that buy anything these days with no sense of decency. I doubt the storyline would clash, and I know the gameplay would be different, so why not let them both exist...

Sincerely,
Sorrowful in South Jersey


Yeah, but Halogen was looking to be dead. It was down to about 1 update every 6 months, and the engine they were building it for was 3 years out of date. Even with their 3 years of work, they were still modelling crap. Personally, I quite like the ensemble RTS idea, halogen was disappointing, especially as it was barely Halo, just mildly halo-related.

  • 09.27.2006 12:39 PM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
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[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:41 PM PDT

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Well, however "Crappy" halogen looked, it was a halo RTS, and I looked forward and supported it as a fan made project. It hurts to see how many people posted in the update. "w00t" without even mentioning Halogen. I saw 1 halgen related post. Which was totally true.

"The rumors about M$ bringing in a new RTS is true....."

  • 09.27.2006 12:44 PM PDT

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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I'll still say I'm pissed. After what happened to the folks doing Halogen, I really don't feel Ensemble or Microsoft deserves a dime of my money. If they'd have let Halogen continue, I guarantee more people would have bought "Halo Wars" as it is now, I think they shot themselves in the foot with that. Of course, I could be entirely wrong, considering the idiotic kids with disposable income that buy anything these days with no sense of decency. I doubt the storyline would clash, and I know the gameplay would be different, so why not let them both exist...

Sincerely,
Sorrowful in South Jersey


Yeah, but Halogen was looking to be dead. It was down to about 1 update every 6 months, and the engine they were building it for was 3 years out of date. Even with their 3 years of work, they were still modelling crap. Personally, I quite like the ensemble RTS idea, halogen was disappointing, especially as it was barely Halo, just mildly halo-related.


So let it die of natural causes, no need to go through a C+D. Especially considering they were not even close to being competing projects. Hell, one's on a PC on an old game. One is on the 360 and built from the ground up.

There is no question that Halo Wars would be the superior game either. My point is they didn't have to attack the fans in order to release it. Don't miss the point.

  • 09.27.2006 12:45 PM PDT
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So this is why Halogen got the shaft huh? How many man hours thrown out for this? I hope it is worth it to Bungie to spit in the face of their fan community to make a buck off of something that they aren't even working on.

Bottom line: after learning of both the Halogen shutdown and reading the front page article, everyone's BS detector should be going off.

  • 09.27.2006 12:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Scythe252
Well, however "Crappy" halogen looked, it was a halo RTS, and I looked forward and supported it as a fan made project. It hurts to see how many people posted in the update. "w00t" without even mentioning Halogen. I saw 1 halgen related post. Which was totally true.

"The rumors about M$ bringing in a new RTS is true....."


Why should it be raised? It broke copyright laws and would have infringed on pretty much everything about Halo Wars. All they have to do is rename the mod and they'll be able to release it, it's not like there was any actual Halo content in it, they just borrowed the backstory and style for the designs.

  • 09.27.2006 12:46 PM PDT

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Well, I understand why it happened the way it did, but I'm not in M$. I'm a fan. I Support most other fan projects. There was no halo story, true. But it did have skins and such, which is a big improvement over nothing. Sure, halo wars looks great, but knowing someone had 3 years of hard work sucked down the drain because of it, just hurts.

  • 09.27.2006 12:49 PM PDT
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Just curious, when was this Halogen thingie put to an end?

  • 09.27.2006 12:51 PM PDT

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Back a couple weeks ago.

  • 09.27.2006 12:52 PM PDT
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I too am losing faith in Bungie. I am dissappointed in their decision to make Halo Wars. I think this is going to be another one of those great game concepts being made into something worse than it really is.

  • 09.27.2006 12:53 PM PDT