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  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Scythe252
Well, however "Crappy" halogen looked, it was a halo RTS, and I looked forward and supported it as a fan made project. It hurts to see how many people posted in the update. "w00t" without even mentioning Halogen. I saw 1 halgen related post. Which was totally true.

"The rumors about M$ bringing in a new RTS is true....."


Why should it be raised? It broke copyright laws and would have infringed on pretty much everything about Halo Wars. All they have to do is rename the mod and they'll be able to release it, it's not like there was any actual Halo content in it, they just borrowed the backstory and style for the designs.

I didn't even think about Halogen at the time, but now that I do... I'm beginning to dislike Halo wars even more.

Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
Just curious, when was this Halogen thingie put to an end?

because MS doesn't have faith in Ensemble Studios.

The guys from Halogen are fans of halo and halogen was their way of expressing and sharing it with the rest of us.
Now that I see Halo wars, it's like Ms is thinking: "We want you to be fans of Halo, but only if we can make a buck out of it."
If Halo wars is going to be any good, they wouldn't have shut down Halogen. To me it seems as if Microsoft doesn't have any faith in Ensemble studio's at all.

Copyright infringement or not.

  • 09.27.2006 12:55 PM PDT
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And for clarifications sake, what did this Halogen thingie do?

JAF, I asked when was it nixed, not why.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 12:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
JAF, I asked when was it nixed, not why.

I misread. :)
It got bunked a couple of weeks ago.

  • 09.27.2006 12:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
And for clarifications sake, what did this Halogen thingie do?

JAF, I asked when was it nixed, not why.

It was a Mod for an existing (non-Halo game) RTS that made it into essentially Halo Wars. :\

  • 09.27.2006 12:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Scythe252
Well, however "Crappy" halogen looked, it was a halo RTS, and I looked forward and supported it as a fan made project. It hurts to see how many people posted in the update. "w00t" without even mentioning Halogen. I saw 1 halgen related post. Which was totally true.

"The rumors about M$ bringing in a new RTS is true....."


Why should it be raised? It broke copyright laws and would have infringed on pretty much everything about Halo Wars. All they have to do is rename the mod and they'll be able to release it, it's not like there was any actual Halo content in it, they just borrowed the backstory and style for the designs.

I didn't even think about Halogen at the time, but now that I do... I'm beginning to dislike Halo wars even more.

Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
Just curious, when was this Halogen thingie put to an end?

because MS doesn't have faith in Ensemble Studios.

The guys from Halogen are fans of halo and halogen was their way of expressing and sharing it with the rest of us.
Now that I see Halo wars, it's like Ms is thinking: "We want you to be fans of Halo, but only if we can make a buck out of it."
If Halo wars is going to be any good, they wouldn't have shut down Halogen. To me it seems as if Microsoft doesn't have any faith in Ensemble studio's at all.

Copyright infringement or not.


I'm starting to feel the same way. I'm not liking Halo wars, and it doesn't seem like Bungie and Microsoft have much faith in the game if they feel threatened by a group of fans making a mod.

  • 09.27.2006 12:59 PM PDT
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I agree with JAF and Jim.

Theres no way in hello that HaloGen would be able to compete with a professionally made game of the same type (sort of).

One is a fan created "mod" made with an editor and the other is a full fledged game that has professional game developers making it.

In my nose it feels as if the stench of the poop that was dropped all over the Halogen guy is being clooged up by the stench of greed.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 1:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
JAF, I asked when was it nixed, not why.

I misread. :)
It got bunked a couple of weeks ago.


I know you're blind with fury but focus man!

So let me get this straight....some of you are pissed that Bungie/Microsoft nixed the creation of a mod that basically changes some random RTS into a game that Bungie has subcontracted?

  • 09.27.2006 1:04 PM PDT
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This this. (There's even a nice video!)

I hope that explains why HaloGen was shut down (not the text, not the image and video).

  • 09.27.2006 1:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I'll still say I'm pissed. After what happened to the folks doing Halogen, I really don't feel Ensemble or Microsoft deserves a dime of my money. If they'd have let Halogen continue, I guarantee more people would have bought "Halo Wars" as it is now, I think they shot themselves in the foot with that. Of course, I could be entirely wrong, considering the idiotic kids with disposable income that buy anything these days with no sense of decency. I doubt the storyline would clash, and I know the gameplay would be different, so why not let them both exist...

Sincerely,
Sorrowful in South Jersey

I think they shutdown halogen so when this halowars comes out, people will buy it.I think they were eliminating the competition and I can't beleive noone has comented (I didn't read every post, but i read many)

hold on iam, ima read what you posted

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 1:09 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Well, I don't really like the name, but then again, I didn't like the "Combat Evolved" tagline attached to Halo either, and that turned out okay. Naming things is hard - it has to have Halo in the title, but it has to be distinct from the other games and existing trademarks. I don't envy the guys who had to make that call. The better choices were probably already taken.

As for the Peter Jackson thing - I do wish I could go into more detail about it, because it is an interesting idea... an experiment, if you will. Hopefully as more is discussed, some fears will be put to rest. But let me put one thing to rest - there will be no "handing over of the Halo franchise". There will be appropriate levels of collaboration.

As for the Halo Portal for phones... well, I'm not big on cell phones, myself. I can't really speak to them. I suggest voting with your wallet. As for the movie, I don't like the idea of a PG13 rating, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear more (like if it is in fact PG13).

Regarding your fears for the game quality... Halo 3 is coming along quite well. Don't mistake not hearing much about it for it not progressing. It is easy for hype to get out of control, and for a game not being released until 2007, we don't really need to talk much about it at this point. The RTS - well, all you've seen is a prerendered teaser trailer. I suggest waiting for more information before you start worrying about it.

Posted by: elmicker
Thanks for the reassurance Achronos, it wasn't so much the RTS i was feeling worried about, more the Jackson-led Halo game(s) from Wingnut. The RTS i'm looking forward to, I mean it's being made by probably the best RTS maker ever, but the name... sucks. Obviously the Wingnut games haven't been announced yet, but handing over the halo franchise to an unproven company led by a team with no experience in games other than playing them themselves could prove to be a mistake. Reading the Halo 3 forum gives you at least 400 reasons why gamers shouldn't be involved in a game's design; we're idiots.

This was more left-over rage from the blatant commercial crap of the Halo Portal, and the news that the Halo Movie is almost certainly going to be PG13, which of course, by the UK's standards, pretty much makes it a kiddy film, unless we get a re-cut version for our censors.

I'm still partially worried about Halo 3, also. I mean, we heard all this amazing stuff about Halo 2, then it was rushed out and disappointing, I still play Halo 1, whereas Halo 2 is sitting gathering dust in its sexy metal collector's case. I did, in fact, tell a lie on the RTS. I'm seriously worried about it; Ensemble might be good at what they do, but then, so were Gearbox, and Halo PC is up there with C&C:Generals on the list of crappy PC FPSs that should never have been made the way they were. It's the same reason i worry for Halo 2 PC; all this could easily go balls-up and produce some more franchise cack.

  • 09.27.2006 1:14 PM PDT
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If Bungie needs a better name I've said it once and I'll say it again: Halo Whores.

I don't know about you, but a game with that name sounds hot.

  • 09.27.2006 1:16 PM PDT
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So basically, you want us to sit quiet till the guys upstairs say you can tell us so we can make our judgemement good and proper? Seems fair enough.

Consider my rant de-ranted :). The concerns still stand, though.

  • 09.27.2006 1:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
As for the Halo Portal for phones... well, I'm not big on cell phones, myself. I can't really speak to them. I suggest voting with your wallet. As for the movie, I don't like the idea of a PG13 rating, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear more (like if it is in fact PG13).

Please, for the love of Halo, make it the American equivalent of a 15 over here. I don't think the Halo movie would be able to pass off a PG13/12A without being simply horrible.

  • 09.27.2006 1:20 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

You can be pissed all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Halogen was shut down because of the way copyright law works. If we don't defend our intellectual property, then we lose the right to defend it in the future. I agree the lawyers were a bit slow in that particular case, but lawyers are not exactly known for working fast.

While you may think this was an "evil" thing to do, it was nothing of the kind. When one's entire business is based on intellectual property, co-opting it, especially for doing something in the same space as the original IP (as in, making a game), is simply wrong.

But, if defending our own control over Halo is "evil", then feel free to stay pissed. A better plan might be to move on (as the guys who made Halogen have done), but I'm not one to tell you how to use your time.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I'll still say I'm pissed. After what happened to the folks doing Halogen, I really don't feel Ensemble or Microsoft deserves a dime of my money. If they'd have let Halogen continue, I guarantee more people would have bought "Halo Wars" as it is now, I think they shot themselves in the foot with that. Of course, I could be entirely wrong, considering the idiotic kids with disposable income that buy anything these days with no sense of decency. I doubt the storyline would clash, and I know the gameplay would be different, so why not let them both exist...

Sincerely,
Sorrowful in South Jersey

  • 09.27.2006 1:22 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Sigh. Please don't make stuff up.

Here's what really happened: "Crap, these guys are making a Halo RTS mod for C&C. They shouldn't really do that. Too bad, because it looks nice, but still, if we don't kill it, then we could possibly lose our ability to defend our IP against more serious abusers."

I HATE people who use terms like "evil" and M$ to describe such things. First people complain about Halo being "diluted" and such, then complain when a project like Halogen is ended... even though it is doing the same thing as what you complained about before. The only difference is that it is an unauthorized use (as you put it, "diluting" of Halo), rather than something sanctioned, like RedVsBlue. It sucks that those guys didn't get permission, but expecting such permission (to make a Halo game) is absurd - Microsoft make games too.

And don't say "Copyright infringement or not." You make it sound like the fact that they were infringing was not a big deal - it was the ONLY THING THAT MATTERED. If it didn't matter, we wouldn't have gone through the trouble.

Posted by: just another fan
because MS doesn't have faith in Ensemble Studios.

The guys from Halogen are fans of halo and halogen was their way of expressing and sharing it with the rest of us.
Now that I see Halo wars, it's like Ms is thinking: "We want you to be fans of Halo, but only if we can make a buck out of it."
If Halo wars is going to be any good, they wouldn't have shut down Halogen. To me it seems as if Microsoft doesn't have any faith in Ensemble studio's at all.

Copyright infringement or not.

  • 09.27.2006 1:32 PM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

I been thinking. My mind has changed. This is life, and its simple, microsoft are not evil. Halogen looked great but may it was the copyright. And are the Halogen moaning like us. Look at ourselfs. Four words.

Everyone live with it.

  • 09.27.2006 1:36 PM PDT
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I have a feeling that when Halo 3 comes out, things will be back to "normal."

Though I'm not sure what "normal" is (was) around here. Seeing as how Frankie and Sketch and Sawnose don't post, I don't feel moved by their apparent lack of involvement.

I can only assume that them being busy with Halo 3 is the reason for this, maybe. Once it hits, this site should see a considerable change.
i think everything will change when halo3 comes out. but i wonder how much halo3 will cost when it comes out?

  • 09.27.2006 1:36 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Concerns are healthy - nobody likes a blind fanboy.

You're welcome (and expected) to post concerns/criticism/comments once you have information to digest. Before that, though, it probably isn't worth getting bent out of shape about it.

Posted by: elmicker
So basically, you want us to sit quiet till the guys upstairs say you can tell us so we can make our judgemement good and proper? Seems fair enough.

Consider my rant de-ranted :). The concerns still stand, though.

  • 09.27.2006 1:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
can only jump in for a second, but no one is asking a question that is going through my mind in regards to Halogen/Halo Wars.

Has anyone heard or considered that the folks from Slipstream might be interviewing or applying at Ensemble?

If so, that could EASILY explain how the folks who were working on Halogen are not screaming and shouting like many of us who aren't completely in-the-loop. I know that this is utter speculation, but perhaps they (the HaloGen team) know how to make lemonade*?

*It's a metaphor for those who are confused by the beverage reference. When life gives you lemons.....

That would be the PERFECT ending to this whole ordeal.

  • 09.27.2006 1:37 PM PDT
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*Raises hand*

  • 09.27.2006 1:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: BobBQ
I fear that Halo is on the fast track to being the Evangelion of video games: crap merchandise and remakes will still be released on a regular basis ten years after the original thing came out.


Agreed.......while I enjoy the thought of a movie, the RTS makes me nervous...and -blam!- handing the game over to a different studio.......It's Bungie's game!!!

  • 09.27.2006 1:38 PM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

And if I had the power, I would lock this thread. We have all stated flaming at each other. Lets not make it worse.

  • 09.27.2006 1:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
I can only jump in for a second, but no one is asking a question that is going through my mind in regards to Halogen/Halo Wars.

Has anyone heard or considered that the folks from Slipstream might be interviewing or applying at Ensemble?

If so, that could EASILY explain how the folks who were working on Halogen are not screaming and shouting like many of us who aren't completely in-the-loop. I know that this is utter speculation, but perhaps they (the HaloGen team) know how to make lemonade*?

*It's a metaphor for those who are confused by the beverage reference. When life gives you lemons.....


I'm gonna just assume that they realized it could be a possible that their project would get crushed. They knew it coming in, they knew it coming out. Call me an ass for defending microsofts defense of it's property, but I'd be the same way.

They went out on a dangerous limb that they knew would break, and it did. So they moved on.

Its far more likely that the microsoft lawers chose this time to stop them because they knew of the impending announcement of the new RTS game and the other project. Seeing as they would know about such things long before the rest of the world.

Nice wishful thinking recon, it would be pretty sweet but I highly doubt it.

  • 09.27.2006 1:38 PM PDT