Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Losing faith in bungie
  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Heh. Well if it matters to anyone, I think things are just fine. I'm happy with the new announcements, and I've been looking forward to an RTS for a long time. Bungie needs to assert themselves sometimes, even if it means being not-so-nice and shutting down a mod. It's just the way things work. Congratulations on the release, and best of luck with all your projects Achronos.

And as for community interaction, we're getting some right now. Although it's a bit less then what Iw as expecting, this will do. It shows Bungie is real, right? :P

EDIT: And Elitus, that's why you aren't a mod. You'd obviously make bad decisions. O.o

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 1:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Actually, i think this topic just got derailed. If you bothered to read it, it was about my worries (aswell as some of the mob's) about bungie's future plans, and the apparant* doling out of the halo franchise to whoever can make a few quid from it, aswell as the quickly dissolving community interaction from bungie. It was, of course, derailed by people intent on missing the point and calling microsoft evil and horrible for shutting down a fan project. I'm actually disappointed my original points were twisted into this MS slagfest, especially as many of the culprits were moderators, it just makes me worry further about the state of the community.

*later reassured by Achronos that it's not being doled out to any tom, dick or Pete Jackson, just people Bungie trust, which is nice.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 1:39 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

(First, I love Recon. Thank you for being positive. YOU are the lemonade master.)

All of this sounds a lot like yet another "Bungie has sold out/jumped the shark" issue. "Bungie is no longer mac exclusive!" "Bungie gave away Myth!" "Bungie sold their sould to Microsoft!" "Bungie abandoned PCs!" "Bungie nerfed Halo 2!" "Bungie is selling it's soul to Hollywood!" "Bungie giving Vista more than they gave the Xbox!" "Bungie is abonding their original xbox fans by going entirely to the 360!" It all sounds the same.

I have my own fears about the Wingnut Interactive thing, but it has less to do with Halo than it does with the whole "inteactive movies" thiing. I am having flashbacks to the mi-90's and the Hollywood money flowing into the 3DO with dreams of a new art form. But I appreciate the attempt.

My other point is that Halo 1, Halo 2 and Halo 3 arent goingto disappear even if Halo: The Movie, Halo: The Interactive Story and HaloWars all blow massive chunks. The games you love will still be there. Expecting Bungie not to grow and not to use the detailed universe that they have created seems... well, selfish. "I don't want Halo to be over exposed because it is MINE!" This is like the folks who get angry when their favorite local band signs a bug record contract and suddenly 12 girls from Wallawalla are screaming at their concerts. It's one thing if their music suffers... but if they are playing the same music, what do you care? Why should you care? You should be happy and excited that the rest of the world begins to understand what you love. You should take pride that you were there from day one, but you should feel angry or even superior.

  • 09.27.2006 1:41 PM PDT

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Erepublik: Save the world from oppression!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are two view points. The company's point of view, and the fan's point of view. You have to realize both however. The company's point of view is that it was a violation of IP, and was the right thing to do. For the sake of the company. The fan's point of view however is the fact that we support each other, and are not happy the way Microsoft dealt with it. Maybe the reason we are mad is because we don't know the full story. I'm just rather mad at this point because I am a fan, and I am viewing it from a fan's standpoint....

  • 09.27.2006 1:41 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The Marty Army

Ah, look at the lonely people...

Keep the Halogen talk for somewhere else.

I agree, though, I'm very dissapointed in Bungie passing permissions to Halo to another studio. I really hope Halo Wars is excellent; Halo will die without it.

  • 09.27.2006 1:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This is happening way too fast...

Bungie, it is not a good idea to make this kind of decision...well, maybe this should be directed at both Microsoft and Bungie...

The thing is, the more experience you have, the more mistakes you are allowed to make. That's just the way it is, plain and simple...look at it this way: Little Timmy took three tests, and got a 100 % on one while getting 50% on the other two....in this example, Timmy doesn't have snowball's chance in hell...
Yet if Timmy had taken 8 tests, and getting a 100% on 6 of them, he'd still have a chance to pass high school...Bungie & Microsoft, my point is, you do not have enough experience to risk putting your most popular franchise into the collaborating hands of two other companies!
Bungie has been a company for about 15 years...yet they have only made 3 Halo games, counting Halo 3...yet you mean to tell me that you're also collaborating on 2 more? I think you're beating the crap out of the Halo series, to be blunt...and I think elmicker hit the nail on the head; yes, Halo 2 was disappointing, and I'm over that...yet now you're collaborating on 2 other games? If it has less Bungie in it, then it obviously doesn't have the same Bungie quality...

  • 09.27.2006 1:50 PM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

Posted by: Achronos
You can be pissed all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Halogen was shut down because of the way copyright law works. If we don't defend our intellectual property, then we lose the right to defend it in the future. I agree the lawyers were a bit slow in that particular case, but lawyers are not exactly known for working fast.

While you may think this was an "evil" thing to do, it was nothing of the kind. When one's entire business is based on intellectual property, co-opting it, especially for doing something in the same space as the original IP (as in, making a game), is simply wrong.

But, if defending our own control over Halo is "evil", then feel free to stay pissed. A better plan might be to move on (as the guys who made Halogen have done), but I'm not one to tell you how to use your time.



I don't debate on the copyright law, and the pure and simple about it is that the lawyers didn't charge after the warthog launch game (Thanks BOLL), or even the little side scrollers that used Halo in the title (Halo: Blood Covenant, for example). I submit that it's because of one simple reason - they weren't similar genre. I submit that it's because Microsoft saw the interest it was generating and decided to cash in. I really hope Ensemble makes a great game, the franchise deserves it, as do your others (it certainly deserves a better treatment than Myth III got) , but regardless of what Microsoft or even you say, it's going to look REALLY bad for a while. It wasn't even a direct competitor, they're on different formats, different scales, and one would have the advantage of being totally designed from the ground up, and one was a simple mod made for an aging game.

The franchise is well established. Very well. It is not as if you are going to have an issue in court were it to come about where someone tried to put something out as an original work or a new game using your IP. I see no difference in the wallpaper that the fans make using your characters and a mod, to be quite frank, since in both cases is just Window dressing, if you'll pardon the pun.

I don't begrudge you protection, I simply think a little care could be taken to establish what actually requires protection. I doubt you could convince me that Halogen was, or would ever have been, a threat.

  • 09.27.2006 1:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

In my opinion Jim, there's quite a difference between a Warthog Launch game and a Halo RTS mod. Cheap side scrollers are fine, but there's a point where it becomes too, well, good.

EDIT: And I think that the person who said they don't have the experience is forgetting Myth, Marathon, PiD and others, Yes they do have the experience -.-

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 1:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Who cares if it's a threat? This isn't your linux hobbyist forums, Jim, this is Microsoft; what's theirs is theirs, and rightly so. How would you feel if you'd put hundreds of hours into developing the backstory and fluff surrounding Halo just to have it pulled to bits by amateur modders who didn't even think to ask? There's a world of difference between a flash side-scroller and a TotalCon mod for a popular RTS.

  • 09.27.2006 1:55 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

I don't see the big deal with Bungie licensing the franchise to a studio who (obviously, in Bungie's opinion) can handle execution of an RTS better than they can. It looks like they want to elaborate on as much backstory as possible before they finish Halo 3, so by the time Halo 3 is finished, they can move onto something new. Once this is all finished, they can move on comfortably, without worrying about something they missed.

  • 09.27.2006 1:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: MrJames
In my opinion Jim, there's quite a difference between a Warthog Launch game and a Halo RTS mod. Cheap side scrollers are fine, but there's a point where it becomes too, well, good.


So you think that if Bungie/MS were to make a Halo side-scroller, they wouldn't shut it down?

As far as copyright lawyers are concerned, there is no difference.

  • 09.27.2006 1:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I don't think Bungie/Microsoft would make a sidescroller.

  • 09.27.2006 1:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

These two new Xbox 360 games coming out are going to flood these forums. The Underground is shifting back towards where it was before Halo 3 was announced. There are even a ton of more posts here in the Septagon. And more people will join and spam will increase as the release of these games draws nearer. 2006 is almost over, 2007 is right around the corner...

With three new Halo Xbox 360 games coming out over the next few years, don't expect a remake of Marathon or something new from Bungie any time soon. Halo may be the next Final Fantasy or Star Wars.

  • 09.27.2006 1:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

By "not enough experience," I meant "not enough games"....usually*, if you make a BUNCH of really popular games, you gain more chances to make one or two business mistakes...but Bungie has not made a BUNCH of really popular games besides Halo (Marathon and Myth would have been gold mines, but Macs aren't very...popular...), so therefore, if people dislike several of their new games, then it will hurt Bungie's reputation more than, say, Sony, Square or Nintendo...

  • 09.27.2006 1:58 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: MrJames
I don't think Bungie/Microsoft would make a sidescroller.


Irrelevant. Answer the question.

  • 09.27.2006 1:58 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

Posted by: Ad Hominum
Posted by: MrJames
I don't think Bungie/Microsoft would make a sidescroller.


Irrelevant. Answer the question.


We still have Halo Zero...

  • 09.27.2006 2:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Ad Hominum
Posted by: MrJames
I don't think Bungie/Microsoft would make a sidescroller.


Irrelevant. Answer the question.


No.

Don't treat me like I'm a child, because I'm not, and it's insulting. You have no more right to tell me what I should or should not say than anyone else does, so dont' try to. I won't listen. I will, however, explain why I say that.

The quality of a side scroller can't ever get that good. The quality of an RTS can. Bungie would never make a side scroller because nobody would buy it. The question is flawed. So here's my response.

No. Your question is irrelevant, get off your high horse and stop treating me like I'm any worse then you because I have a differing opinion. We can discuss things like civilized human beings if you wish to, but I won't put up with that -blam!- you just pulled. It's insulting, debasing, and offensive.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 2:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Achronos
then we could possibly lose our ability to defend our IP against more serious abusers.


Sorry, but that is where you lose me. Can you go deeper?

  • 09.27.2006 2:02 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Jim, I think you're somewhat running over the fact that Halogen never even asked Bungie if they could start, as far as I've heard.

I'll take a person example from me, here: My brother works on D20 rules for D&D, hangs out on the Wizard's of The Coast boards a lot.. Pretty prominent. He started making a Zelda D20 system with another guy, but first asked Nintendo if this was alright. "Just don't make money off of it." Was their response. Some other group started working on some other D20 system, and were asked to stop after they started selling T-Shirts and merchandise based off of a logo that wasn't theirs. They never asked for permission, either.

Maybe that's a bad example, maybe it's a good one. I suppose you can interpret that as you will.

Did everyone forget that Halogen was selling merchandise?

In a sense, The "Halo"gen logo isn't theirs. It's the Halo logo, with "Gen" after it. They basically stole it. (Regardless of their intentions) If you noticed their website, they were selling merchandise sporting "Halo"gen on them, etc. That's making money off of something that really isn't theirs.

Isn't that a little less than "Harmless"? Besides that, as Achronos said: Larger abusers would take that as a sign that they would be able to do things like that.

  • 09.27.2006 2:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

IP = Intellectual Property, I think.

Look at elmickers post below if you need any more clarification. I thought that was all you were asking about.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 2:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: PikachuOwnsYou
Posted by: Achronos
then we could possibly lose our ability to defend our IP against more serious abusers.


Sorry, but that is where you lose me. Can you go deeper?


Precedent. If MS pick and choose who they let through, people will just claim precedent and the IP laws will collapse around their copyrights as every tom dick and harry emulates the first person who was allowed, so they just go "They let him do it!" and carry on making it.

  • 09.27.2006 2:03 PM PDT