Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Losing faith in bungie
  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
Marathon, Myth, and MORE (Under construction)

NO U! A Webcomic.
Mob Of Angry Peasants Chat

Posted by: MrJames
In my opinion Jim, there's quite a difference between a Warthog Launch game and a Halo RTS mod. Cheap side scrollers are fine, but there's a point where it becomes too, well, good.


Maybe, however it still comes across as an attack on the fans that are the major source of support for Bungie. I worry that they spread themselves thin as well.

For example, Marathon holds desktop space on my PC even though it's 12 years old. I play Eternal, and a few other sundry Marathon mods. I play Myth II with multiple plugins. Does that mean since Mazzarin's Demise has a Beholder in it that I won't buy a Baldur's Gate game? No, it doesn't.

Map/Character Mods in games designed for it are a way of expressing one's self interests, as well as their appreciation for certain properties.

  • 09.27.2006 2:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Posted by: MrJames
In my opinion Jim, there's quite a difference between a Warthog Launch game and a Halo RTS mod. Cheap side scrollers are fine, but there's a point where it becomes too, well, good.


Maybe, however it still comes across as an attack on the fans that are the major source of support for Bungie. I worry that they spread themselves thin as well.

For example, Marathon holds desktop space on my PC even though it's 12 years old. I play Eternal, and a few other sundry Marathon mods. I play Myth II with multiple plugins. Does that mean since Mazzarin's Demise has a Beholder in it that I won't buy a Baldur's Gate game? No, it doesn't.

Map/Character Mods in games designed for it are a way of expressing one's self interests, as well as their appreciation for certain properties.


But if you modified an entire game to be Baldur's Gate you might stop playing it, right? And if you started selling Baldur's Gate shirts with your own little branding on it, you might be a bit of a threat to the company that makes Baldur's Gate? I'm just saying that there are some things that are harmless. Warthog Launches don't seem like a big deal, IMO. A mod of an upcoming Bungie title that is selling its own merchendise? Yeah, I can see that reasonably needing to be shut down.

Note: I'm taking the fact that HaloGen is selling merchendise from another post. I don't know if it's true or not.

  • 09.27.2006 2:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

While I understand the frusteration over the Halo-gen issue, blame in the intellectual property laws. Write your Congressman and Senator. I agree that they are messed up. Because there is the possibilty is MS/Bungie didn't send a C&D letter to the Halo-gen folks, they'd be screwed in the future.

Judge: "Well, I see that you want to sue Copycat games of basically copying large elements from the Halo unverse, aping the logo in their game "Space Ring." But you didn't to anything for the last 5 years as this Halo-gen grew and expanded. Sorry."

That's just the way the laws right now. There are ways to grant limited use licenses but they are tricky. I wish they weren't but they are.

  • 09.27.2006 2:13 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Its entreprenurship.


Bungie is a growing business, its only natural that they make more games.


UBI Soft cranks out 20 games a year. That doesnt mean the games suck.

Just see what they make and try it out if its no good then return it.

And dont forget, people have been asking for a Halo RTS for years.

  • 09.27.2006 2:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: MrJames
Posted by: Ad Hominum
Posted by: MrJames
I don't think Bungie/Microsoft would make a sidescroller.


Irrelevant. Answer the question.


No.

Don't treat me like I'm a child, because I'm not, and it's insulting. You have no more right to tell me what I should or should not say than anyone else does, so dont' try to. I won't listen. I will, however, explain why I say that.

The quality of a side scroller can't ever get that good. The quality of an RTS can. Bungie would never make a side scroller because nobody would buy it. The question is flawed. So here's my response.

No. Your question is irrelevant, get off your high horse and stop treating me like I'm any worse then you because I have a differing opinion. We can discuss things like civilized human beings if you wish to, but I won't put up with that -blam!- you just pulled. It's insulting, debasing, and offensive.


No, it was irrelevant because it didn't matter within the question whether or not it was likely, but in the event it would happen, regardless of possiblility, what do you think would be done?

I wasn't "treating you like a child," or at least I didn't intend to, but if you want to play that game, I'll bite. If you can't understand the difference between realilty and a thought experiment, and identify when one is asking about one or the other, than I think you should brush up on your rhetoric.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 2:13 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

This topic is derailing even more.

I'm split on this. I think the HaloGEN project shouldn't have been shut down. However, it's the HaloGEN team's fault for not asking permission, or even giving Bungie a heads up on it.

I'm sure there are some HBO regulars here. There's always posts on the front page about someone making Halo armor. I doubt they get hit with C+D notices(Nightmare Armor is a different story; they were making profit). Hell, people make machinimas using Halo, and distribute them. I don't think the Codex team got hit with a C+D. What's the difference, really?(Although I hear they sell shirts and DVDs, so I'm not so sure about this topic.)

I fully understand the right and desire to protect one's intellectual property. But, I don't see a real problem with HaloGEN. Were they making profit? I don't think so. Was it diluting the IP? If HaloGEN is diluting the IP, then why is RvB still in existence? To quote GJJ, why is the Warthog Launch game still there? Why are all those machinimas and Halo armors and weapon replicas still out there? Wallpapers? Screen savers? Fan fiction? Yes, you can argue that they didn't get permission, and you're 100% correct, but did it have to be shut down? I'm just not getting it. It's not like you're losing business or fans to an unprofessionally made fan creation, based(some more loosely than others) on your game. I'm probably missing something here; I'd like to know what it is.

I'm not going to throw around wild claims that MS shut them down to make a buck, or they're "cashing in". I understand Microsoft's reasoning, although I think their way of handling the situation was a bit heavy-handed. Personally, I would have waited until the HW announcement was made, and then contacted the HaloGEN team, asking them to change certain things about their project, or something along those lines.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 2:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: MrJames
The quality of a side scroller can't ever get that good. The quality of an RTS can. Bungie would never make a side scroller because nobody would buy it. The question is flawed. So here's my response.
Incorrect. Obviously you've never heard of the Super Mario Bros. trilogy...so don't act like there's a strict limit to the quality of a sidescroller, because obviously you don't know what you're even trying to say..

  • 09.27.2006 2:20 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Posted by: Rant
Posted by: Nedus
This topic is derailing even more.

I'm split on this. I think the HaloGEN project shouldn't have been shut down. However, it's the HaloGEN team's fault for not asking permission, or even giving Bungie a heads up on it.

I'm sure there are some HBO regulars here. There's always posts on the front page about someone making Halo armor. I doubt they get hit with C+D notices(Nightmare Armor is a different story; they were making profit). Hell, people make machinimas using Halo, and distribute them. I don't think the Codex team got hit with a C+D. What's the difference, really?(Although I hear they sell shirts and DVDs, so I'm not so sure about this topic.)

I fully understand the right and desire to protect one's intellectual property. But, I don't see a real problem with HaloGEN. Were they making profit? I don't think so. Was it diluting the IP? If HaloGEN is diluting the IP, then why is RvB still in existence? To quote GJJ, why is the Warthog Launch game still there? Why are all those machinimas and Halo armors and weapon replicas still out there? Wallpapers? Screen savers? Fan fiction? Yes, you can argue that they didn't get permission, and you're 100% correct, but did it have to be shut down? I'm just not getting it. I'm probably missing something here; I'd like to know what it is.

I'm not going to throw around wild claims that MS shut them down to make a buck, or they're "cashing in". I understand Microsoft's reasoning, although I think their way of handling the situation was a bit heavy-handed. Personally, I would have waited until the HW announcement was made, and then contacted the HaloGEN team, asking them to change certain things about their project, or something along those lines.


How come no one takes MS or Bungie to task for sitting there for 3 years and watching these guys build this thing. They cant claim ignorance. And if they do that's almost worse.


I agree 100%

Its like watching bees build a nest all day and then destroying it.

Kind of cruel.

  • 09.27.2006 2:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Halo Kart is next! Long live Halo!

  • 09.27.2006 2:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Heh, isn't it obvious why Microsoft waited for three years?

Think about it; if you IMMEDIATELY tell Halogen to not make a mod, then Halogen will IMMEDIATELY think of another Halo mod to make...Microsoft waited three years so they could drop the bomb during the project's finishing touches, to lower Halogen's morale just enough so that halogen would feel too shot down to even bother making another mod...

It's another of Microsoft's goddamn power trips...

  • 09.27.2006 2:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Ad Hominum
Posted by: MrJames
Posted by: Ad Hominum
Posted by: MrJames
I don't think Bungie/Microsoft would make a sidescroller.


Irrelevant. Answer the question.


No.

Don't treat me like I'm a child, because I'm not, and it's insulting. You have no more right to tell me what I should or should not say than anyone else does, so dont' try to. I won't listen. I will, however, explain why I say that.

The quality of a side scroller can't ever get that good. The quality of an RTS can. Bungie would never make a side scroller because nobody would buy it. The question is flawed. So here's my response.

No. Your question is irrelevant, get off your high horse and stop treating me like I'm any worse then you because I have a differing opinion. We can discuss things like civilized human beings if you wish to, but I won't put up with that -blam!- you just pulled. It's insulting, debasing, and offensive.


No, it was irrelevant because it didn't matter within the question whether or not it was likely, but in the event it would happen, regardless of possiblility, what do you think would be done?

I wasn't "treating you like a child," or at least I didn't intend to, but if you want to play that game, I'll bite. If you can't understand the difference between realilty and a thought experiment, and identify when one is asking about one or the other, than I think you should brush up on your rhetoric.


I don't give a damn what you "intended" to do. What you did do was come across as a beligerant, egotistical jerk. You insulted me. You seem to think that it's alright to talk down on others, but it isn't, especially on an online forum! In an argument like this, we're all equals. Try and accept that. Ordering me like I'm a trained dog to answer some bull-blam!- question of yours is offensive, and I hope you can see that.

And no, I don't believe I need to brush up on my rhetoric. I understand perfectly what you're trying to do, and it's flawed. The differences between a RTS and a side scroller are huge. It's impossible to compare the two in a "thought experiment" like this. We're talking about a low quality fan made game being produced. Extremely low quality. Bungie would never, in this time, try to produce a game like that. I won't answer a question that creates an enviroment perfectly suited to get the answer you want. If the question was
"Lets say this is 15 years ago and side scrollers are popular games. The FPS hasn't been invented yet, and Bungie decides to switch from [insert genre here] to the Side scroller, but finds someone selling a modified bungie product already on that market. Should they shut them down then?"

And my answer is yes to that question.

  • 09.27.2006 2:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Heh, isn't it obvious why Microsoft waited for three years?

Think about it; if you IMMEDIATELY tell Halogen to not make a mod, then Halogen will IMMEDIATELY think of another Halo mod to make...Microsoft waited three years so they could drop the bomb during the project's finishing touches, to lower Halogen's morale just enough so that halogen would feel too shot down to even bother making another mod...

It's another of Microsoft's goddamn power trips...


Don't jump on the MS hating bandwagon, mate. It was nowhere near "finishing touches"; it had been going for 3 years, it was nearly dead, down to an update every month at best, with very little progress displayed over the last year beyond a couple of new models.

  • 09.27.2006 2:26 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member

I have a question about Halo Wars.

Was the Bungie team involved in the making of the trailer for the game?

  • 09.27.2006 2:26 PM PDT

MY XBOX DIED THAT'S WHY.

Posted by: Nedus
Personally, I would have waited until the HW announcement was made, and then contacted the HaloGEN team, asking them to change certain things about their project, or something along those lines.


Or they could have just let them be. I don't think Halogen would have survived the Halo RTS spotlight much longer after that announcement, anyway.
If anything, I would love to see some of the guys at Halogen working for the HW team. Hire these guys!

  • 09.27.2006 2:29 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Rant
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Heh, isn't it obvious why Microsoft waited for three years?

Think about it; if you IMMEDIATELY tell Halogen to not make a mod, then Halogen will IMMEDIATELY think of another Halo mod to make...Microsoft waited three years so they could drop the bomb during the project's finishing touches, to lower Halogen's morale just enough so that halogen would feel too shot down to even bother making another mod...

It's another of Microsoft's goddamn power trips...


I really hope you're trying to be sarcastic, because if you're not this bordering on a paranoia and not just fan-boyism.
Please shut up, I'm trying to add drama...

And I am not a fanboy, by the way...I was merely making a speculation on the matter, no more than what you're doing...

  • 09.27.2006 2:30 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Posted by: lady die
Posted by: Nedus
Personally, I would have waited until the HW announcement was made, and then contacted the HaloGEN team, asking them to change certain things about their project, or something along those lines.


Or they could have just let them be. I don't think Halogen would have survived the Halo RTS spotlight much longer after that announcement, anyway.
If anything, I would love to see some of the guys at Halogen working for the HW team. Hire these guys!


That would have been even better. It's not like they would have lost sales because of a mod for a game that's damn near dead. Hell, the people who were interested in the mod probably would have been the first people to buy HW, as it's a real Halo RTS, not an RTS with Halo skins and models.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 2:32 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Pointed Star
Halo Kart is next! Long live Halo!

No, the Halo pop-up book is next. Then Halo Kart.

  • 09.27.2006 2:39 PM PDT

Posted by: VII Toast
Well, I for one think that I am gaining respect for Bungie. They are spreading the use of their license and appealing to a larger crowd. Good idea.

More story and backdrop for the fans through the movie, Halo Wars, etc. and then gaining a larger audience which basically equals a bigger paycheck.

Honestly. I'd rather have an over milked license than one that has a single great game and ends violently.

Now, of course this could all backfire horribly. Halo could turn into the next Final Fantasy (7, to be specific). But I trust that the guys know what they're doing. That's all that we can do.

I may sound like some kind of rabid fanboi, but I rarely agree with the decisions that big businesses make. As long as the games are still enjoyable and don't get repetitive - then go for it.


I'm with toast.
This IS what loads of people on these forums have been asking for for months, if not years now. As I said in an earlier post this may just free bungie up to either :

A: Remake Marathon or PID for the 360
B: Make Phoenix
C: Make a totally new game that may rival or be better than halo
D: Drink tequila and lay on a beach somewhere.

Now the best thing about this is that it allows the halo universe to grow and continue to run its course. So basically we're going to be in a situation that lets us play more and new halo games AND play future bungie games. I do feel for the guys at halogen, but at the end of the day they have accepted it and we as a community should too.



[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 2:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Rant
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Posted by: Rant
Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Heh, isn't it obvious why Microsoft waited for three years?

Think about it; if you IMMEDIATELY tell Halogen to not make a mod, then Halogen will IMMEDIATELY think of another Halo mod to make...Microsoft waited three years so they could drop the bomb during the project's finishing touches, to lower Halogen's morale just enough so that halogen would feel too shot down to even bother making another mod...

It's another of Microsoft's goddamn power trips...


I really hope you're trying to be sarcastic, because if you're not this bordering on a paranoia and not just fan-boyism.
Please shut up, I'm trying to add drama...

And I am not a fanboy, by the way...I was merely making a speculation on the matter, no more than what you're doing...


Im specualting yes, but I trying to stay within the realm of reality and praticality. It doesnt make business sense to do what you suggested. Why possibly jeopardize your most sucessful franchise to crush a bunch of wanna-be's?
They weren't really wanna-bes, they were making a mod, nothing more...

  • 09.27.2006 2:40 PM PDT