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This topic has moved here: Subject: Losing faith in bungie
  • Subject: Losing faith in bungie
Subject: Losing faith in bungie

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

When I first "officially" pledged myself as a Bungie fan, I took many trips into the dark recesses of their ancient past. How is this even relevant to the discussion?

During these "dark trips that delved into these rain slick precipices (of darkness) where only the most devout fan would dare travel," I learned many things about Bungie. Some amazing secrets, and quite frankly some pretty embarrasing ones.

And now when I see the present situation I don't know if I should smile, or just shake my head.

Upon discovering that Bungie even HAD extra projects, and seeing the Pre-Rendered trailer, I was ecstatic. Oh sure there's the slight worry about handing it out to a 3rd party, but I know quality control will be in place to some degree. And you say THE Peter Jackson working on a special secret project? Tantalising.

However I am VERY worried about just what's going on with the company as a whole.

Additional expansions into the Halo universe? A Movie, 3 shooters, a cell phone portal?, a strategy game, and a "as yet un-named secret project" of tantalising possibility? This is a very suprising and unexpected trend.

Did Marathon recieve additional installments? A point and click adventure(guess why I mentioned it)? No of course not. marathon didn't need any work to flesh things out, although their was room incase they ever did want to. Not like they've done with Halo, but still some room. Lets talk about Myth. An incredibly deep universe, plenty of room left to expand. But Bungie began working on Halo, and Microsoft bought them. Myth and Oni now lie in the grasp on take 2, who made a prequel which sucked.

Oni got a horrible comic book and a PS2 port.

But the key with Myth is that there was an active Modding scene making plugins to their game. Even using their Intellectual property, Oh my! Of course this was an element of the game. They wanted for people to make new scenario's and even total conversions.

Did Bungie always want to "franchise" their games? Were they simply too small to do so before?

In a small sense, Should Bungie leave things be, and finish Halo 3, then move onto another series? Do they really need to highlight and explain everything that happened in the Halo universe? Where's the mystery?

Really, I'm just worried by the nature of the Halo Wars project, and the cancelled Halogen mod. Yes they infringed upon your IP. However I am very worries about what position this puts the fan community in.

Are we allowed to make Machinima based in the Halo universe? Are we allowed to make songs? Art? All of these thing have never recieved a warning from Microsoft, and have even been commended by Bungie. Red vs Blue wasn't sued by Microsoft. Are we still allowed to make Machinima? Should we call and leave a message and hope you get back to us? We can't make fan mods anymore?

Just what can the fan community do, and what is no longer allowed?

I'm very confused by all of this. I feel like there is very little information around in regards to what the community is allowed to do.

It just has left a bitter taste in my mouth....If things aren't made clear soon I fear that I might have to bust out my Skiis in order to traverse this slippery slope.

[Edited on 9/27/2006]

  • 09.27.2006 9:27 PM PDT

I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

It is a sad day when bungies own moderators loose faith in them. But I have confidance that bungie will not fail. I will always stand with them even when there is no one else. Risk must be taken. And while this may be a big risk, I' am sure it will pay off.

  • 09.27.2006 9:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: CD4_REBORN
It is a sad day when bungies own moderators loose faith in them. But I have confidance that bungie will not fail. I will always stand with them even when there is no one else. Risk must be taken. And while this may be a big risk, I' am sure it will pay off.


Try not to be overly dramatic. The moderators are fans, and members of the community like everyone else. Expressing concern is perfectly ok. Just as long as everyone remembers to give things a chance before making up their minds. That's the important thing, in my opinion.

  • 09.27.2006 9:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: CD4_REBORN
It is a sad day when bungies own moderators loose faith in them. But I have confidance that bungie will not fail. I will always stand with them even when there is no one else. Risk must be taken. And while this may be a big risk, I' am sure it will pay off.

I'm confident that Bungie will eventually get out of the Halo loop. And I'm surprised to hear myself say that, because just a while ago I was very set on the fact that Halo will go on forever and it would become rather boring.

With this announcement, while Halo may still go on and degrade into an almighty waste of time, Bungie can go on to better things. And hopefully, they will. They finished Marathon, a wonderful story, to make Myth. They handed Myth over to Take 2 and MumboJumbo, who utterly defiled it, but Myth I and II still remained as great games that are still played online today. Then they moved onto Halo, which has an amazingly huge fan base.

Frankly, I hope this goes the same way Myth did. Halo 3 will rock, the spin-offs will go their own way and Bungie will move on to greater things. Halo, while being great, sure as hell doesn't need more than 5 games in it.

I hope Bungie sees that.
-TGP-

  • 09.27.2006 10:10 PM PDT
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Success will take you where your character cannot sustain you. Bungie must take care to remember what created their massive success, and I trust they will, but as fans we must remember too. The success of Bungie, or more specifically the Halo franchise, has certainly prompted Microsoft to pimp out Bungie's IP for fat cash, but they'll never be able to get rid of Bungie's most dedicated fans. When Halo ends, many will flock to the next big thing while we remain right here, eagerly awaiting the next chapter in the Bungieverse.

  • 09.27.2006 11:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: CD4_REBORN
It is a sad day when bungies own moderators loose faith in them. But I have confidance that bungie will not fail. I will always stand with them even when there is no one else. Risk must be taken. And while this may be a big risk, I' am sure it will pay off.

Look at my name, and you'll see I'm a fan, but that doesn't mean I will support Bungie all the way. I never like it when things get "milked out", and I feel that that is the case with Halo. Now, I don't believe that this is entirely Bungie's fault, for I'm confident MS has a large say about things. And from what I understand quite a few people from Bungie didn't like it when halogen got shut down.
However, should there be another Halo game created by Bungie, I don't think I'll be much of a fan anymore. It also depends when they make one of course, Should they create one seven years from now, after they created one or two different IP's, fine. Anyway, I'm giving everyone the benefit of doubt.

The one that is giving me hope right now, is that the two new halo games are not created by Bungie, and I hope they take as much distance from those games as possible, so that once Halo 3 is done, they can move on and finally do something else.

  • 09.28.2006 2:44 AM PDT
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I'm hugely excited about Halo 3.

That said, there can be no question about it, Bungie need to move on after it's finished.

  • 09.28.2006 3:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
IDK whats worse, all of the bad business decisions, the bad gaming decisions, or the bad playlist decisions.... I just know that I'm having trouble finding a good decision


I don't think you're looking hard enough, or you're just blind. :)

[Edited on 9/28/2006]

  • 09.28.2006 3:45 AM PDT
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Bungie seems to have a decent connection to its community; I highly doubt we'll see a "Myth III" out of this whole experience. We don't know what's happening behind closed doors or how far along certain content is; all we've seen is a pre-rendered trailer...considering Halo's RTS roots and the fact that Ensemble isn't exactly a bunch of new jerks on the block, I think we should be a little more optimistic. These forums tend to fear change from the status quo...loosen your ties a bit! :)

  • 09.28.2006 4:53 AM PDT

Gimme Dat Grip.

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Posted by: aku


Try not to be overly dramatic. The moderators are fans, and members of the community like everyone else. Expressing concern is perfectly ok. Just as long as everyone remembers to give things a chance before making up their minds. That's the important thing, in my opinion.


=D

  • 09.28.2006 5:39 AM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."

RIP Bungie's dignity: 1991-2000

I miss you alot.

  • 09.28.2006 5:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: dOPe BoY MaG1C
I'm glad you mentioned the craptacular idea of Halo Wars. Seriously! A strategy Halo game?


;-(

  • 09.28.2006 6:19 AM PDT

Do you feel what I feel, see what I see, hear what I hear?
There is a line you must draw between your dream world and reality

I don't agree with this standpoint that more Halo is bad. Just because they are releasing another game doesn't degrade the quality of the series.

I like the idea of a Halo RTS, call me a fanboy or something, but I look forward to it. Why is it some people have this idea that having any kind of spin-off is automatically bad? All you've seen is a teaser, hold your judgments for later.

And I'm not some Halo nut, but when I look at Bungie's past, I see a slew of quality games that are all remembered in gaming history.

I trust them, so if they think an RTS will work, then maybe it will work. I'm not even close to losing faith.

  • 09.28.2006 6:27 AM PDT

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Posted by: homocidalham
RIP Bungie's dignity: 1991-2000.

Waitaminit... Bungie had dignity?

We're talking about the same company, right? The Ling-Ling, Webmaster, Tijuana Mama, "your Mom", "-blam!- deathmatch", "We're waiting for the boxes", code-on-pizza-cartons, "couch fishing" Bungie?

-- Steve was wondering for a moment if there'd been another Bungie out there with button-down collars or something.

  • 09.28.2006 6:34 AM PDT

Gimme Dat Grip.

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...It's plain and simple. Bungie is busy in the depths of there dark creative world producing Halo 3 and other uhhmazing, epic products.

Trust me, I am sure someone in Bungie is looking/skimming over the forums and what-not for little tid-bits of ideas and such to maybe bring to life in Halo 3, let them stay busy at work, and leave us to our gossiping. ^_^ It's the way things ought to beee!

  • 09.28.2006 7:35 AM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

"Faith" is hard for some people, such as myself, to lose, because we all hold differing opinions of Bungie. Some Bungie fans expect ground-breaking work with every single game Bungie has a hand in, like with PiD, Marathon, and Myth. Other people just expect good games to come out of Bungie, and don't necessarily expect that every single game be brand new to the fans, because the imagination does have some limits.

I happen to be part of the latter camp, and I will simply look upon these new Halo games with some optimism, because I liked AoE, and I like Peter Jackson's work. If they are terrible games, then I will lose some faith in Bungie. I'll probably also lose some faith if Bungie stays in the Halo series too long, but as long as good games and movies and graphic novels come out in the meantime, I'm fine with more than just the three games.

  • 09.28.2006 7:36 AM PDT
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News? Podcasts? Machinima? Active forums? Competitions? Jaffa Cakes!? OMG!
Thee Warriors!

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I'm happy about the RTS, and am curious about Perter Jackson's other project, but yes, I think Halo 3, the RTS and a few more novels and no more will finsh it perfectly. Provided they are to the standard we expect. I don't think there should be a string of Halo wars but maybe an extension to the first is ok.

I think some people in this thread at thinking too far ahead and jumping to negative conclusions. We can speculate, but eventually we do not know what will happen or how things we be untill they are done. In the intervening time, be happy! \\Y// //A\\ \\Y//!

  • 09.28.2006 9:13 AM PDT
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  • 09.28.2006 9:21 AM PDT

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I completely understand why Halo Wars is being created, as well as this third unnamed project. .. But I'm really having a hard time seeing why everyone else thinks Bungie is gone off of the Bungie course.

In my opinion, this only gives them a bigger community, with more variety, etc. Sure, in a way, it all comes down to making money in the long run, but Bungie, in my view, is still out there doing it for the sake of making the Halo Universe.. You don't make big bucks in game design, so that clearly can't be the reason.

I'm also positive that Microsoft didn't push Bungie into this.. Achronos said he gives them plenty of freedom to do what they will, correct? ... Hmm, I guess I'm just all confused by this reaction. I could swear, only a week ago, that polls about "Should Bungie make a Halo RTS?" turned up positive, and people wanted to maybe see a Halo MMOFPS, etc.

Why has that changed? Is it just the timing it was released in?

  • 09.28.2006 10:06 AM PDT

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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
Or I could post about it here, since I'm already a member of this site, and this is a halowars thread which has been responded to by a Bungie employee...the fact of the matter is, you can't expect to receive 100% "I'm with you all the way" responses...and it just so happens that I'm not the only one disappointed with the title; it is far too general...


Or you could pay attention to what I said and talk about the game (including its title) in the official forums for the game. Pay attention in the future - I wasn't expecting you to "get in line and like it" - I was informing you of the best place to put such comments (which wasn't here on bungie.net).

Making educated guesses? Yes. Close-minded? No. Far from it. I fail to see how thinking an RTS (which is a genre that practically LIVES off of the mouse) would do better on a PC than a console is "close-minded"...I'm merely saying that the game would control better on a PC, because, as I said about Myth, it could be a great game but only if the controls fit it...the mouse is great because you can choose 2 totally different units on opposite ends of the computer screen and give them unique commands...the only way to get this done on the 360 would be to give the control stick an insane amount of sensitivity, but even then, the mouse still has more control, because with the mouse, you can control how fast the icon would go across the screen...it's extremely difficult to play an RTS on a console in this manner...perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't help it if my predictions aren't 100% correct, because I'm not in charge of the news flow on the main page...

Nope, you are being close minded. You are assuming the game is like a PC RTS. PC RTS games are designed to use a mouse. Assuming that this one is likewise designed is silly, as it is being made for the Xbox 360.

Or you could have seen my comment as a compliment--me saying that Halo Wars is not canon, could be looked at as a compliment saying "only the stuff that Bungie does is canon to the story"...if you are saying that Ensemble Studios is in control of a portion of the Halo Universe, then so be it...
Besides, I have already shown how Halo Wars cannot be completely canon...look at the reasons I have provided...and to add to them, why are the spartans wearing Halo 2-esque armor if the game takes place before Halo 1?


Basing story continuity over a teaser trailer is not a good plan. Again, this is something you should probably be talking about in the forums for the game. That being said, the game is an "official" Halo game - and we have guys who will make sure it follows continuity. Just because it violates your assumptions about things doesn't mean it isn't official canon. But, by all means, if you think it doesn't, then go participate in the real forums of the game, instead of complaining here.

Don't accuse me of tearing something down...if Bungie operates solely on positive feedback, then you'd be a horribly stagnant company...I'm offering criticism, and despite being called close-minded, my criticisms still remain legitimate...

Criticism about gameplay and story based on a pre-rendered teaser trailer that may or may not actually occur in the game is not completely legitimate. So far, the only truely legitimate criticism that is likely relevant is that you don't like the name. Everything else you are making unfounded assumptions. However, in both cases, the proper place for you to discuss your concerns would be the official forums for the game.

  • 09.28.2006 10:44 AM PDT