Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Should gamers have a larger say in what is done to MM?
  • Subject: Should gamers have a larger say in what is done to MM?

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Lastly, I'm seeing people on here say that their feedback on this site changes MM, and that being said, I also see people in other threads saying that opinions from here are useless because this forum doesnt accuratly reflect the people who play MM. So which one is it, are the polls on here accurate, even if you dislike the results? I think I'll leave that one at that.


You're confusing two different thing. Polls and feedback are two different things. Polls dont mean anything. People can vote on polls more than once, so the results are null. Feedback and/or suggestions is a valid way to get ideas from the community, but it doesnt over-ride usage stats. When implementing a new playlist, I'm sure NoF looks at suggestions that correspond with the more popular playlists. An example would be new gametypes within the Team Slayer playlist.

You also have to realize that the people you play on Live do not accurately reflect the entire MM community. The KSI people of Halo 2 have thier own little stat-whøring niche carved out and believe that the rest of MM must feel the same way they do. The same thing happened with the wannabe-MLG crowd, they whined and whined for an MLG playlist and when it was given to them, it was one of the least played playlists.

Finally, Halo 2 is coming up on 2 years, don't you think its time to let Bungie focus on Halo 3? Its time to stop flopping on the floor and pounding your fist like a baby because you dont get exactly what you want.

[Edited on 9/28/2006]

  • 09.28.2006 8:32 AM PDT

No, because it is people like you KSI who would ruin the game for the 10s of thousand of players who like it the way it is. Why don't you just get a few friends and stick to customs if your so into what you want and what you don't.

  • 09.28.2006 8:34 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Of course we should, we're the ones who play it....

  • 09.28.2006 9:49 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
I keep seeing people say Team Carnage over and over again, and I would just like to point out, that I never saw anyone asking for that as a playlist... correct me if im wrong, but thats just me. Moving on, if games are removed based on the usage stats, then why are games like multi-team still on there?

Just because a playlist has the lowest usage, that doesn't mean that it needs to be removed. It has NEVER worked that way. A playlist is removed when it is no longer functioning properly in Matchmaking. That usually just happens to the least played list. It makes sense. Multi Team is functioning just fine.

As for N0Fs question concerning my motives, IDK what he means by this, but this is a straight forward question, I'm just asking if this would be a better way to make changes.
I think he was just giving his answer... As in, no.

Lastly, I'm seeing people on here say that their feedback on this site changes MM, and that being said, I also see people in other threads saying that opinions from here are useless because this forum doesnt accuratly reflect the people who play MM. So which one is it, are the polls on here accurate, even if you dislike the results? I think I'll leave that one at that.
You can leave it at that if you want, but they have stated that the polls here are not accurate. They are easily manipulated. I don't recall any Bungie employee ever saying that having a valid, constructive discussion on the forums can't institute a change, especially after said change has been tested.

It says in the last, or second to last paragraph that N0F would still have the final say, that is for the reason above.
He has the final say now. What's the difference?

I honestly disagree, one of the major factors of this is notifying everyone on XBL that they have this option. That being said, I think that most gamers would truly be happy to see changes that they like put it, and would login for 15 mins every weekend to make those changes.
You don't know most gamers, and have no facts to back this up. You can "think" all you want. Casual gamers don't want to take the time.

You cant make this into a MLG/Anti-MLG discussion, because that isnt what it is, and so the only thing that im going to say, is like you said Pro players are a minority, and as such they wouldnt have much say in somthing based on votes, but then you say that they would all login and get changes, so which one is it?
I am not trying to make this into a discussion like that. What I am saying is that your so called "Pro players", which are the minority, WOULD take the time to come here and vote. The casual players would not. Which means that the "Pro players" could effect a change, even though they shouldn't be able to based solely on numbers as opposed to discussion.

So you mean to tell me your friends wouldn't login if you told them, hey go vote for BLANK, and it was somthing they agreed with? The wouldn't take 15 mins of their time, and they never have any time when they are bored, or are doing nothing?
No, they wouldn't. I've tried to get them interested. Since they are happy with MM as it is, they don't need to come here. Casual players are already happy. They don't need to come here. And when casual players are bored, they are PLAYING the game already... Not coming here. If they aren't playing Halo, they are doing something else. They don't want to be bothered.

This is a good idea as well, and I am thinking about expanding on this and putting it in the H3 forums
You should do that. I think an in game feedback system for Halo 3 would be cool, whether they use the results or not.

  • 09.28.2006 10:22 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
What way would be more significant than an accurate poll of the combined opinions of what we as gamers want to play? Where can you get a better view of what we want to play?

Usage stats. They pretty accurately represent what we want to play. If this were an in-game feature that didn't require anything more than someone giving a short opinion on XBox Live, then maybe it would be more accurate. No internet poll is EVER going to be more accurate than simply looking at what the people are acually playing.

  • 09.28.2006 10:26 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

You are doing an admirable job of avoiding any legitimate questions or discussion brought forth in this thread.

While you may do it in a somewhat calm manner, you do so with the tact of a 12 year old.

Any post in this thread that rationally explains why you're opinion isnt correct, you simply dismiss with "whatever".

I can take the KSI part being a joke, I can take back any mlg references, it still doesnt change the fact that you can't support your argument, if there was an argument to begin with.

Your 'argument' is simply this; I want my playlist and matchmaking ideas to be used, if not, I'll sit here and whine and post nonsense on your forums.

Many people in this thread have tried to discuss this calmly and rationally with you. You choose to ignore thier posts only to focus on your own infantile delusions. When you manage to pry your head out your ass, maybe this discussion(?) can continue, otherwise, I can only suggest to you that your next method of approach might be holding your breathe until you get what you want.

  • 09.28.2006 10:39 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

If a change is wanted, people wouldn't play it. That's the point. Then NoF would hopefully try to figure out how to fix it. If it didn't work, and the usage just remained low, then it would get taken out so that a new list can be introduced.

  • 09.28.2006 11:13 AM PDT

Instant Message me if yeah want to chat
Aim:baccardinals
Wanna Play send me a Friend Request
GT:baccardinals

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7


Well, you must consider this, if a CHANGE is wanted in a playlist, why would more people play it? Also you have to consider things like the fact that unranked playlists get more games played, BC that is the only place you can go into MM with a guest.


Not true at all.

  • 09.28.2006 11:21 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Twinkie, your posting is based on the assumption that I'm doing this because I want my own personal playlist.... now that WOULD be really cool, ill be honest, I mean who wouldnt want a playlist named after them... but simply put, im doing this to see if there is a better way for MM changes to be made, not because I have any vendetta because N0F smashed my child with a bat, or whatever other theory youve come up with... look up a couple of posts, where I directly went to the points with conan.


Sorry, that was posted while I was typing my post.

Simply put (again, my opinion), polls are inaccurrate. Those of us in the U.S. know that we can't even get the correct votes for our president, and that is something being performed by supposedly mature, responsible adults. Can you imagine what the poll results would be if we left it in the hands of the 8 - 18 male demographic?

There may be a better way, but for now I think that the usage stats combined with community feedback is the best way to go. Again, my opinion.

  • 09.28.2006 11:42 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

First, you get plenty of imput based upon playlist usage. You like something play it, if enough people like it they play it the list survives. There are certainly other qualifiers, but usablitity is probably very important for a list to survive.

Second, if you actually stop and read the forum you'll find that about 1/3 LEGITIMATE non-repeated ideas are even remotely useful. It's a real gem to happen upon anything really helpful lately, or even any good suggestions. The majority of casual gamers (ie the people that outcount the "pro" crowd) probably don't have an account here and probably don't care what you think. They sign on, play the list they like, sign off and move on with life. Catering to them is easier than trying to keep the loud minority here settled down.

We are the minority of users on this forum, by no means a representation of the actual community.

[Edited on 9/28/2006]

  • 09.28.2006 12:48 PM PDT

Instant Message me if yeah want to chat
Aim:baccardinals
Wanna Play send me a Friend Request
GT:baccardinals

Guests are not the reason unranked games are so high. Many people enjoy them because they wont lose there rank and plus its just a way for people to have fun. Guests are not the reasons again unranked lists are high.

  • 09.28.2006 12:48 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: KSI SEVEN 7
Polls are accurate if they are taken on a large enough scale, and if they were voted upon by a group similar in preportion to the whole. Now, Presidential elections dont meet the second criteria, why do you ask? Well the answer is simple, in America the voter turnout is less than 50%, and the groups that have the largest number of placed votes are the well educated, the ones who are well off monitarily, and the elderly. This is clearly not an accurate reflection of the American population. Therefore the evidence you used to back-up your point is faulty. I realize why you are saying what you are saying, but it is somthing that I think we can agree to disagree on. Unless of course you want to try to come up with more evidence supporting your opinion.


True, but just as the voters who vote in a presidential election are not wholly representative of the American population, the fan community at Bungie.net is not wholly representative of the entire Halo 2 playing population.

If it were a mandatory poll on Xbox Live, it would be short lived. People find it annoying and unecessary. Hell, I even find the little 'so-and-so is online' pop-ups annoying.

I think Bungie (and NoF specifically) is doing a good job at keeping everybody mostly satisfied. Sure, we would all change a thing here or there, but I find it better to keep more people happy than cater to any specific group.

  • 09.28.2006 1:39 PM PDT