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Ture, but I also what would attract members to a website like Bungie.net would be word of mouth once it reaches the 500K point. I've gotten a couple of my friend to be members through word of mouth. The fact that Bungie has made such awesome games would also increase the member count, I've never heard about Bungie before Halo, people like me would come here and look at up coming projects and just browse the site, eventually seeing the forums.The best thing about Bungie.net that widely seperates it from otehr websites would have to be the groups feature though, a fan made fan group, rather than admin made groups which focus on roughly the same thing. Finally to note would have to be the communtiy interaction, on Bungie.net it's great, moderate and always pwns an entire thread. (Sorry just had to add that)

Back on topic, as I edited in my post before, I like how each role is clearly defned on Bungie.net, between member, ninja or admin like Achronos and SketchFactor. Other sites can get confusing by seeing so many different ranks in one thread, where you can't really take them all as the truth, or even read them for that matter just because they have more posts than others.

  • 09.29.2006 9:50 PM PDT
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I see two paths for how ranks can work out:

1) People are promoted based on post count. Obviously, spam will hit the forums hard. Moderators will have to work harder to get rid of the people who want whatever the highest rank they can get is. Those who do get the rank will either be good, or will try to use their "superiority" to support their arguments against the "inferior" members.

2) Promotions are dealt out by moderators and/or Bungie employees. Both the mods and the forums will be hit with "I wanna be promoted" PMs and threads (respectively). Of course, with this method, the members chosen are assumed to be trustworthy, so fewer members will use their new rank to bad ends. But would it really be fair to unload so much extra work on these people?

Of course, the other option would be for a karma system to be developed, but since only a handful of members (not including the moderators) can be trusted with it, the power would have to go to the ninjas (and perhaps the promoted members). But then it just goes back to #2.

Of course, who truly needs a rank to feel content?

Back on topic, as I edited in my post before, I like how each role is clearly defned on Bungie.net, between member, ninja or admin like Achronos and SketchFactor. Other sites can get confusing by seeing so many different ranks in one thread, where you can't really take them all as the truth, or even read them for that matter just because they have more posts than others.

The beauty of simplicity.

[Edited on 9/29/2006]

  • 09.29.2006 9:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
In my opinion, until a way is made to more effectively and more permanently link a Bungie member account (or MS Passport, or Windows Live ID) to our real identity, then any system that includes rewards and discipline is likely to encounter problems. Especially when used on a high-traffic site with a large and transient membership.

The anonymity of a basic user account is too irresistible for many online who are up to no good. Sadly for those who are in the opposite camp, those who wish to build a reputation and possibly enjoy the benefits of recognition and positive participation, the account is well.... too temporary.


Well I truly respect that opinion...someone who really knows what they are talking about.

  • 09.30.2006 4:51 PM PDT
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Recon always know what he's talking about.

  • 09.30.2006 6:49 PM PDT
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This already exists, there are forum ninjas. If you are good, and active, and the other ninjas like you, you become one. How does that not apply to this?

To respond to the other guy...

1) People are promoted based on post count. Obviously, spam will hit the forums hard. Moderators will have to work harder to get rid of the people who want whatever the highest rank they can get is. Those who do get the rank will either be good, or will try to use their "superiority" to support their arguments against the "inferior" members.

True very true indeed, however think of the good that could come out of it. At least with a post count, we know who is active, and who is not. It would make it easier on group leaders to give promotions, and to recruit.

2) Promotions are dealt out by moderators and/or Bungie employees. Both the mods and the forums will be hit with "I wanna be promoted" PMs and threads (respectively). Of course, with this method, the members chosen are assumed to be trustworthy, so fewer members will use their new rank to bad ends. But would it really be fair to unload so much extra work on these people?

This already takes place in every large group, I will see a "I want a promo" every once in a while, but other than that it promotes good conduct, and constructive posting. Most members know if they ask they will likely not get one.

-Iamthey

[Edited on 10/1/2006]

  • 10.01.2006 12:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: MAC 13720

As stated in the ideals of capitalism, being good at something will reward YOU.


Thus encouraging the mindset that those 'other people', who have not 'achieved' anything, are worthless serfs worthy of either no attention whatsoever, or maybe scorn.

Give me a break man. You're gonna go around drawing comparisons between flawed political rhetoric and how to make Bungie.net forums a better place....

I'd rather deal with the ZOMG teh no-scopzzzzz ownzzz ya NooB crowd.

  • 10.01.2006 7:05 AM PDT

I'm sick of this Elitism crap, it stops anything happening on this website. You want Elitism? Look at the admin and mods - they have Custom Avatars and White/Orange text.

It would be nice, but I don't know how people would get promoted. That's all I'm saying.

  • 10.01.2006 7:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: noreality
It would create elite-ism within the members, which was already averted by removing he post count and member join dates. That and Bungie is making a game, would you rather they make new unneccessary things for the site, or make a kickass game?

Honestly, what is it with people on this site and elitism?! So what. If I do something great for the site, I would like a reward. I'm sure everyone else would. Yeah, people say "Oh, I do it because I want to help out!" but 99% of the time that's bull. There's nothing wrong with some people having a higher rank then others.

EDIT: Fine. I'll give you a perfect example of ranks here. Theme masters. Yeah, we can all see how horrible and orrupt they've become. They flaunt their title around and degrade other members to no end. I can see why you'd want no ranks.

Wait. They never do that. Since the new hotness (I wasn't around a whole lot before it), the only example of a new member rank on this site has worked incredibly. Hell, Bungie can't even keep up with the new themes coming in! Imagine other things this could be used for.

[Edited on 10/1/2006]

  • 10.01.2006 8:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: iamthey
True very true indeed, however think of the good that could come out of it. At least with a post count, we know who is active, and who is not. It would make it easier on group leaders to give promotions, and to recruit.


In groups you have plenty of moderators to watch over everything, and the administrators can control the flow of incoming members. But wouldn't it seem a bit annoying if you had a high post count, and every member and their dog with a new group wanted you in there to make it active? It would be good for promotions in groups, and I suppose that a post count option in groups would work out well enough.

This already takes place in every large group, I will see a "I want a promo" every once in a while, but other than that it promotes good conduct, and constructive posting. Most members know if they ask they will likely not get one.

-Iamthey


But the large groups don't have nearly as many members, much less active ones. But the base of my argument is that it means more work for other people. If people could be trusted with a karma system, I don't think I'd be arguing.

But why do ranks matter? Do you feel that because you are a good member you must have a shiny badge to prove that fact? Do you need a rank to set yourself apart from the trolls and spammers? Isn't a rank nothing more than a material version of a "Thank you?"

  • 10.01.2006 8:41 AM PDT

Posted by: Mabian
But why do ranks matter? Do you feel that because you are a good member you must have a shiny badge to prove that fact? Do you need a rank to set yourself apart from the trolls and spammers? Isn't a rank nothing more than a material version of a "Thank you?"

No. Well, at least not to me. Instead of being that which you most elegantly described, it would be a nice change of pace. It could be fun, give them funny names. I know where you're all coming from about the badge and everything, but I am sick of all this elitism talk and how that's affecting the chances of a lot of change.

  • 10.01.2006 9:06 AM PDT
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I'd like a badge, yes.

  • 10.01.2006 9:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: MrJames
Posted by: noreality
It would create elite-ism within the members, which was already averted by removing he post count and member join dates. That and Bungie is making a game, would you rather they make new unneccessary things for the site, or make a kickass game?

Honestly, what is it with people on this site and elitism?! So what. If I do something great for the site, I would like a reward. I'm sure everyone else would. Yeah, people say "Oh, I do it because I want to help out!" but 99% of the time that's bull. There's nothing wrong with some people having a higher rank then others.

EDIT: Fine. I'll give you a perfect example of ranks here. Theme masters. Yeah, we can all see how horrible and orrupt they've become. They flaunt their title around and degrade other members to no end. I can see why you'd want no ranks.

Wait. They never do that. Since the new hotness (I wasn't around a whole lot before it), the only example of a new member rank on this site has worked incredibly. Hell, Bungie can't even keep up with the new themes coming in! Imagine other things this could be used for.


Eliteism is a huge problem, people will get it in their head that just because they have more posts, or have been a member longer that means they are better than someone else, which I hope you know isn't true, here's an example. ICEMAN ASSASS1N is fairly new to Bungie.net, yet he know more than people who have been a member for longer than a year or two but a member that has made twice as many posts and been a member for over a year say, "No iceman, you're wrong, you're still new here, you couldn't possibly know that". Such is a case of eliteism. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want that occurring all over the place now would you.

For one the themes aren't being accepted right now. Okay, and about the Theme Masters, they actually don't have any authority over us, and it's not a rank, more of a recognition that they created something that we didn't. Theme Master also signifies that they are mature enough to make something appropriate for Bungie.net and it's groups, compared to people who are immature enough to spam the forums and no take anything seriously.

If you want ranks then how do you propose that we give them out? Number of Posts, no that won't work because other people will just spam for the sake of a rank. Moderators and Admin give them out, no because that means they have to sort through roughly 2 million members in order to know the right people to give them you to. That would also cause lots of arguments based on this "Oh *member* doesn't deserve one, they'll just spam, and stuff" or, "I want a promo" As so stated by an above poster (sorry I forget who you were). Other member give points (negative and positive) based on their post, no the wouldn't work either, then people will be giving negative points to people just because they don't like them, or people will give positive points because either A: they are the same person, or B: They'll do it because the other person will do it to them.

So there's a few ways to hand out ranks, which obviously don't work, if you can think of a successful way to give them out, then my hats off to you, but for now, just live with the current Bungie.net forums and get your ranks in groups.


~Mark~

  • 10.01.2006 9:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: xTr1GGeR HaPPYx
No. Well, at least not to me. Instead of being that which you most elegantly described, it would be a nice change of pace. It could be fun, give them funny names. I know where you're all coming from about the badge and everything, but I am sick of all this elitism talk and how that's affecting the chances of a lot of change.


I will agree that the regular arguments of "it promotes elitism" are a bit too...common. Both sides are able to reach their idea through a logical argument, so neither side really has a benefit over the other.

And I think I may have got a little too caught up in the Iliad, when Agamemnon decides he would rather take Achilles' prize than be "honored."

Now if you can give members the ability to choose what "type" of member they are, and make five or six different titles that give no bearing on a member's "status," I wouldn't object. Who says there isn't a happy medium?

I'd like a badge, yes.

Is a badge more important than being thanked, though? Assuming these ranks are real, if a moderator were to come along and thank you for your efforts, would you acknowledge the thanks, or ask for a promotion, which you would definitely deserve? (It's not a very good example, but I can't think of anything better than that.)

[Edited on 10/1/2006]

  • 10.01.2006 10:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian
Now if you can give members the ability to choose what "type" of member they are, and make five or six different titles that give no bearing on a member's "status," I wouldn't object. Who says there isn't a happy medium?


You mean like a "Preferred Forums List?"

Just a little list on the side under your name that says what Forums you prefer to post in.

Would that promote Elitism? Yes, to some people who just have to have something to brag about. But for the most part, I see no problem in something like that.

Now about the Ranks: They aren't needed. Theme Master is not a rank at all- it's a title. They don't have any influence (other than the fact that their avatars will cause them to get more attention than the average member) so that's why we have no problem with them. But there's really no need to have Ranks on this site.

We're all members and we're equal. That's all that matters.

  • 10.01.2006 10:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Posted by: Mabian
Now if you can give members the ability to choose what "type" of member they are, and make five or six different titles that give no bearing on a member's "status," I wouldn't object. Who says there isn't a happy medium?


You mean like a "Preferred Forums List?"

Just a little list on the side under your name that says what Forums you prefer to post in.

Would that promote Elitism? Yes, to some people who just have to have something to brag about. But for the most part, I see no problem in something like that.


No, not really. Rather than the common "Member," we might have funny little titles that we might feel sum up ourselves in a couple of words. The titles wouldn't be able to carry any connotation that a certain type of member would be better than another, but would still add variety to what some people see as a bland title. And if people don't feel they fit into any of the categories, they can choose the normal "Member" title. It'd be something of a "Forum User Classification."

I get this idea from someone else. Someone like...you, actually.

  • 10.01.2006 11:41 AM PDT
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Ask your self this though, how many people pay attention to titles?

It's impossible to create something completely neutral, one cannot please both parties (people or groups of people) at once, someone would find a way to inspire eliteism within those titles.

  • 10.01.2006 12:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian
And if people don't feel they fit into any of the categories, they can choose the normal "Member" title. It'd be something of a "Forum User Classification."

I get this idea from someone else. Someone like...you, actually.


Forum User Classifications?

Yeah, that was my idea.....it had a lot of flaws though. Maybe a group of selections that are about humor, as opposed to status, as you said.

It could work, or maybe not. Who knows- it all depends on how the community acts/reacts.

  • 10.01.2006 12:26 PM PDT
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*cough*Eliteism*cough*

  • 10.01.2006 12:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: noreality
Ask your self this though, how many people pay attention to titles?

It's impossible to create something completely neutral, one cannot please both parties (people or groups of people) at once, someone would find a way to inspire eliteism within those titles.


What about names like Durandal, Master Chief, Tycho, Security Officer, Alric, and such? Doesn't that offer variety? Do those names carry connotations that a person is better than another?

But perhaps we don't mean the names of characters. But what do we think about when we think of classifications for members? Good member? Troll? Intellectual? Are these the only words that can describe a member? There are plenty of other adjectives that do not promote elitism. Go ahead and throw some up there. Sure you'll have people who are foolish enough to think that because they picked a certain name, only the people who picked the same name are "good enough" to talk to them, but those people would most likely have caused trouble in another form, so does it really make any difference when the people who cause problems in one fashion cause problems in another fashion?

  • 10.01.2006 12:32 PM PDT
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If it was user chosen which is what you're saying then yes it should be able to work.

  • 10.01.2006 12:47 PM PDT
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Well, a "Veteran Member" rank might be nice, for accounts that have been active for some years or whatever; you have no control over it so people couldn't ask for them etc.

But I doubt this kind of thing would happen, I mean they even removed the join dates.

Unlocking new avatar selections would be good, for instance being here for a while would allow you to use a few more, maybe some other requirements for different pictures...

  • 10.01.2006 1:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: noreality
Posted by: MrJames
Posted by: noreality
It would create elite-ism within the members, which was already averted by removing he post count and member join dates. That and Bungie is making a game, would you rather they make new unneccessary things for the site, or make a kickass game?

Honestly, what is it with people on this site and elitism?! So what. If I do something great for the site, I would like a reward. I'm sure everyone else would. Yeah, people say "Oh, I do it because I want to help out!" but 99% of the time that's bull. There's nothing wrong with some people having a higher rank then others.

EDIT: Fine. I'll give you a perfect example of ranks here. Theme masters. Yeah, we can all see how horrible and orrupt they've become. They flaunt their title around and degrade other members to no end. I can see why you'd want no ranks.

Wait. They never do that. Since the new hotness (I wasn't around a whole lot before it), the only example of a new member rank on this site has worked incredibly. Hell, Bungie can't even keep up with the new themes coming in! Imagine other things this could be used for.


Eliteism is a huge problem, people will get it in their head that just because they have more posts, or have been a member longer that means they are better than someone else, which I hope you know isn't true, here's an example. ICEMAN ASSASS1N is fairly new to Bungie.net, yet he know more than people who have been a member for longer than a year or two but a member that has made twice as many posts and been a member for over a year say, "No iceman, you're wrong, you're still new here, you couldn't possibly know that". Such is a case of eliteism. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want that occurring all over the place now would you.

For one the themes aren't being accepted right now. Okay, and about the Theme Masters, they actually don't have any authority over us, and it's not a rank, more of a recognition that they created something that we didn't. Theme Master also signifies that they are mature enough to make something appropriate for Bungie.net and it's groups, compared to people who are immature enough to spam the forums and no take anything seriously.

If you want ranks then how do you propose that we give them out? Number of Posts, no that won't work because other people will just spam for the sake of a rank. Moderators and Admin give them out, no because that means they have to sort through roughly 2 million members in order to know the right people to give them you to. That would also cause lots of arguments based on this "Oh *member* doesn't deserve one, they'll just spam, and stuff" or, "I want a promo" As so stated by an above poster (sorry I forget who you were). Other member give points (negative and positive) based on their post, no the wouldn't work either, then people will be giving negative points to people just because they don't like them, or people will give positive points because either A: they are the same person, or B: They'll do it because the other person will do it to them.

So there's a few ways to hand out ranks, which obviously don't work, if you can think of a successful way to give them out, then my hats off to you, but for now, just live with the current Bungie.net forums and get your ranks in groups.


~Mark~

Why is it such a huge problem is someone who contributes a ton to Bungie.net gets it into their head that they are better then someone who doesn't? Aren't they better? What you're saying is that nobody should get any material recognition for positive contributions. I can't understand that.

And a Theme Master is absolutely a rank, so don't try to pretend it isn't. No other rank proposed here would have any power, and none would be given unless the poster showed maturity. Don't try and say that the bribe of being given a title hasn't caused mroe themes to be submitted, either, because you're wrong there too. The only example of a rank being implemented has been a resounding success. I don't see why everyone is so afraid.

And as to ranks being distributed: Who ever said that thousands of people needed to be given a rank? If you don't do something, you don't get a rank. It's really that simple. I can't image more than about 15 or 20 people holding a rank anyway, so it's not like the mods would be swamped trying to hand these out.

  • 10.01.2006 2:28 PM PDT
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You have to understand that right know the folks at bungie have their hands tied and can't worry about the website know that is probably the least priority. Maybe they can cool new features once Halo 3 is near release cause they are far to busy right now trying to make it.

  • 10.01.2006 2:33 PM PDT
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This brings up a uestion I've had for awhile. Achronos, do you actually help make Halo 3 or are you strictly website?

  • 10.01.2006 2:44 PM PDT

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