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Subject: Ranks on Bungie.net
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Posted by: Mabian
But the large groups don't have nearly as many members, much less active ones. But the base of my argument is that it means more work for other people. If people could be trusted with a karma system, I don't think I'd be arguing.

But why do ranks matter? Do you feel that because you are a good member you must have a shiny badge to prove that fact? Do you need a rank to set yourself apart from the trolls and spammers? Isn't a rank nothing more than a material version of a "Thank you?"


I believe we have just identified the problem. There are not enough moderators to look after b.net or at least there are not enough active ones. Perhaps b.net should look into adding a few to their team.

As for the karma system I would never support it. It does not work, when everyone can give it out, it becomes abused, when only mods can, not everyone gets karma, besides forum ninjas have more important things to be doing that handing out karma.

And to address your last point, "why do we need ranks?" I never said that the post count was to make yourself fell good, I was pointing out that it would be helpful to group leaders who are looking for active posters.

-Iamthey



[Edited on 10/1/2006]

  • 10.01.2006 3:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: iamthey

I believe we have just identified the problem. There are not enough moderators to look after b.net or at least there are not enough active ones. Perhaps b.net should look into adding a few to their team.


.....You do realize that they added 5 new moderators a couple months ago, right?

  • 10.01.2006 3:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: iamthey
And to address your last point, "why do we need ranks?" I never said that the post count was to make yourself fell good, I was pointing out that it would be helpful to group leaders who are looking for active posters.

-Iamthey


Certainly. If you would like to see an optional post counter in groups, I wouldn't stand in your way. But since the discussion is more about Bungie.net as a whole, I feel some need to tie the topic in with the entire discussion. And it was actually meant to be aimed at the point of discussion, not you. So it's not like I'm accusing you of being the lone supporter of ranks on Bungie.net or anything of the like.

Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
.....You do realize that they added 5 new moderators a couple months ago, right?


Bob...Ghandi...Senor...JAF...who's supposed to be the 5th? KP?

  • 10.01.2006 5:55 PM PDT
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Skiptrace was added. He has a moderator title in HFCS O.o

  • 10.01.2006 6:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: MrJames
Skiptrace was added. He has a moderator title in HFCS O.o


But isn't Skiptrace a "Web Tester?" And wasn't he added more than a couple months ago? I think KP fits closer into that, since he has a Master Moderator title in HFCS, and was added to the roster after Skiptrace.

  • 10.01.2006 6:36 PM PDT

I hate everything, but it's not my fault.

It was Pezza! He must really feel left out right now. :)

It wouldn't detract terribly if I could give out Karma, although I do spend way too much time here...

  • 10.01.2006 7:00 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Damn...and I looked through the moderator list and everything.

Yeah...he's going to feel really bad when he sees this.

  • 10.01.2006 7:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ghandi 2
It was Pezza! He must really feel left out right now. :)

It wouldn't detract terribly if I could give out Karma, although I do spend way too much time here...


I would rather have mods spend there time locking bad threads than assigning karma.

  • 10.01.2006 7:44 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

They aren't mutually exclusive, you know. You act like assigning Karma is some huge feat. It isn't. Neither is locking a thread. It takes all of mabye two minutes, assuming you're writing an explanation and the creator takes it well.

  • 10.01.2006 8:36 PM PDT
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i wish there was a post count. i wonder how many retarded posts (found by counting the number of posts ive ever made lol) i made...

  • 10.01.2006 9:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian

Certainly. If you would like to see an optional post counter in groups, I wouldn't stand in your way. But since the discussion is more about Bungie.net as a whole, I feel some need to tie the topic in with the entire discussion. And it was actually meant to be aimed at the point of discussion, not you. So it's not like I'm accusing you of being the lone supporter of ranks on Bungie.net or anything of the like.


I think we misunderstood one another. I would like to see a total post count ever. I mean one that counts all the posts you have done in groups, and on the official b.net. Like I said this would be helpful in both promotion giving, and recruitment. How does a group post count help, if the person is not a member yet? Sorry for the misunderstanding.

-Iamthey

  • 10.01.2006 10:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: MAC 13720
This has been brought up before. What I'm suggesting is ranks on Bungie.net. The Bungie.net Online Team is one of the best I've ever seen, and I think they could pull-off something like this.

I belive that ranks would not only be cool, but it would promote "good posting", or rather, and inscentive to be a good member. As stated in the ideals of capitalism, being good at something will reward YOU. I'm the kind of person that strives for promotions on sites. I have become a moderator on almost every chapter that I'm a member of and a few other online forums. And I know I'm not unique. When I realize that being a good member on this site will reward me, I will be the best member that I can be. Promotions would promote great user activity.

This rank system should measure multiple dimensions. Not just user participation, but the quality of participation.

Please comment, add on, criticize, disagree, and challenge me; thats what forums are all about.


This is Bungie.net. Not just any chapter, Moderators don't look for members with the angelic Halo on their head, they look for qualities

  • 10.02.2006 9:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pink Menace
They aren't mutually exclusive, you know. You act like assigning Karma is some huge feat. It isn't. Neither is locking a thread. It takes all of mabye two minutes, assuming you're writing an explanation and the creator takes it well.


Good point. As long as there isn't a way to abuse the system, I would be fine with it.

  • 10.02.2006 10:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Brain of Gold
This is Bungie.net. Not just any chapter, Moderators don't look for members with the angelic Halo on their head, they look for qualities


Exactly, bungie looks for different qualities, in order to be sure you will be able to use your powers effectively.

-Iamthey

[Edited on 10/2/2006]

  • 10.02.2006 1:24 PM PDT

On the concern of Elitism. It is an issue in any major forum. You should have seen that the member since dates have contributed to a form of that. They were seen by some the community to have a "rank" status, and hence the longer the member, the better the member they were.
Do you see sense in that? Its not even logical.

As for post counters? I remember them here before. The amount of spam that was created in the short time that they were viewable. Many members, all trying to outpost the other in spamming threads.
the members of this community have risen quite substantially since then. And the general spam has increased. Could you imagine the hell that would be created if post counters were involved?

As for ranks in general. It comes back to elitism. The I am better than you. My karma is higher than yours so therefore I have more of a say than you do.
Post counts will not work. As for members will spam to get the rank up. So they are meaningless. Assigned by moderators? A handful of moderators organise over 2 million members? Absurdity.
And as for karma? I am better than you again? Please no.

Keep the three ranks for members. Master Ninja, Ninja, Member.
Keep the unique member titles for Bungie Employees.

(Theme Master is not a rank. It is a title of an ordinary member. It in noway denotes community involvement. Abilities on Bnet. Or increased status in teh forums. It is a title that indicates a theme submitted by them was approved.)

  • 10.02.2006 5:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pink Menace
They aren't mutually exclusive, you know. You act like assigning Karma is some huge feat. It isn't. Neither is locking a thread. It takes all of mabye two minutes, assuming you're writing an explanation and the creator takes it well.


But with so many users making so many posts, the moderators would have so much more work to do. Perhaps a good member has also flamed and spammed. If moderators can only leave one "karma point" per user, they have to read many of the user's posts in order to figure out whether they deserve a good or bad "point" (assuming there will be bad karma). If the "points' are handed out per post, the moderators have to read close to every single post to figure out who deserves promotions. Do 150 members need that rank that badly?

  • 10.02.2006 5:43 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: Keith Byrne
On the concern of Elitism. It is an issue in any major forum. You should have seen that the member since dates have contributed to a form of that. They were seen by some the community to have a "rank" status, and hence the longer the member, the better the member they were.
Do you see sense in that? Its not even logical.

As for post counters? I remember them here before. The amount of spam that was created in the short time that they were viewable. Many members, all trying to outpost the other in spamming threads.
the members of this community have risen quite substantially since then. And the general spam has increased. Could you imagine the hell that would be created if post counters were involved?

As for ranks in general. It comes back to elitism. The I am better than you. My karma is higher than yours so therefore I have more of a say than you do.
Post counts will not work. As for members will spam to get the rank up. So they are meaningless. Assigned by moderators? A handful of moderators organise over 2 million members? Absurdity.
And as for karma? I am better than you again? Please no.

Keep the three ranks for members. Master Ninja, Ninja, Member.
Keep the unique member titles for Bungie Employees.

(Theme Master is not a rank. It is a title of an ordinary member. It in noway denotes community involvement. Abilities on Bnet. Or increased status in teh forums. It is a title that indicates a theme submitted by them was approved.)

Let me ask you this. Who is most likely more knowledgeable in Bungie Lore; someone who has been here for seven days or seven years? Who probably knows how the forums work more; someone who joined two days ago or someone who joined two years ago? The answers are all pretty clear to me. So far as I can see, older members do tend to be better members. This isn't true all the time, but if you stay here for three, four years, chances are you've got some intrest in keeping a reputation or not getting banned from a forum. You've probably heard the rules a thousand times. Naturally, shouldn't their advice be taken more seriously? If every single sign says that they probably know more then your average user, why should they not be respected more? I see no problem with people saying that they have a bit of a better opinion because they've been here longer. When people say that "You're an idiot because I've been here two weeks longer" they're only making a fool of themselves. If someone is honestly hurt by that, well I don't think Bungie.net is the right site for you.

I agree. Post counts won't work. They encourage spam. A rank would encourage better behavior.

Alright. About the Theme Masters thing. Are you just looking for things to contradict me on? Fine, I went so far as to look up the definition of "rank" for you. Here.
rank
–noun
1. a number of persons forming a separate class in a social hierarchy or in any graded body.

Hmm. I have a feeling we'll get stuck on class now, so I'll give that definition too.
class
–noun
1. a number of persons or things regarded as forming a group by reason of common attributes, characteristics, qualities, or traits; kind; sort: a class of objects used in daily living.

So you're sayiong that a theme master is not a rank? Well let's see. They all share the same fact that they all sumbitted outstanding themes! They are all exceptionally artistic, persevering, patient, all that stuff. I think that Theme Masters qualify as a class. So we can throw that in the "rank" definition. Let's break this down.

A number of persons (good so far, there's more then one Theme Master) forming a seperate class (Yup, they all have their own title and the qualities and attributes necessary to become a Theme Master. Still good here) in a social hierarchy... (There! Done!)
Call me crazy, but I think that Theme Master is a rank -_-

  • 10.02.2006 7:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: EL THORN
Elitism is cool, kids. Stay in school, get smart, and inform others of your memory capacity.


I do not condone that message in any way.

  • 10.02.2006 7:48 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Mabian... -_-

Why does everyone seem to think that the Mods will need to stay uip late scouring the forums for people to give Karma to? If they see a good post, something helpful, mabye a neat contest, they give out a point. It's that simple. They don't need to search for his other posts. If he comes across a bad one, he takes away the Karma point. That's the end of that.

  • 10.02.2006 7:48 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Pink Menace
Mabian... -_-

Why does everyone seem to think that the Mods will need to stay uip late scouring the forums for people to give Karma to? If they see a good post, something helpful, mabye a neat contest, they give out a point. It's that simple. They don't need to search for his other posts. If he comes across a bad one, he takes away the Karma point. That's the end of that.


One question: What about the few people who might make a good post that isn't seen? Too bad for them?

  • 10.02.2006 8:37 PM PDT
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Ranks aren't nesscary yet can be annoying for instance if some new guy were to come along and stayed here for a few months or so.He's promoted to the highest rank and he just shows it off in everyone's face as everyone else is encouraged to do the same thing and only care about their rank and see it as their signifigance without realizing the possibility you can become known without Ranks and still be signifigant to others including without being a mod as well...

  • 10.02.2006 8:45 PM PDT
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Subject:
Ranks on Bungie.net


Wow, so the accessibility of viewing join-dates was changed to combat elitism/segregation, and here some of you are trying to suggest something possibly even more asinine in the form of ranks. Way to re-define contradiction! *hands contradiction cookie*

Seriously, if you want karma points/rank equivalents go over to the Red vs Blue forum. Soak up all the self-gratification you seem to so desperately need, and then come back here.

  • 10.02.2006 9:01 PM PDT
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IMO, why not just have a member title change from Member to Junior Member, then Senior Member, then whatever you would want after that like Forum Junkie or whatever.

This would be based on time spent on the forums rather than post count. Im not sure if it would promote elitism or not, becuase it has nothing to do with anything of the sort than that you have been here a while.

It just seems that the making all members equal thing kinda... counteracts why the members remain at a forum. Not just to discuss, but to make progress in the forum and become a more valuable part of the community. What better way to reward them than with a visual commendation for staying on the forums and being active?

Of course, most of you will view this negatively.

  • 10.02.2006 9:06 PM PDT

Theme master as a class? Yes. But as a rank. On this forum there should be no heirarchy among ordinary members. Your view is very subjective.

rank (plural ranks)

position of a person, place, thing, or idea in relation to others based on a shared property such as physical location, population, or quality
Based on your test scores, you have a rank of 23.
a level in an organization such as the military
Private First Class (PFC) is the lowest rank in the Marines.
The lines or rows of people in an organization
One of the horizontal lines of squares on a chessboard
(music) In a pipe organ, a set of pipes of a certain quality for which each pipe corresponds to one key or pedal.


My reference doesn't not inlude class. Your evidence is subjective to an individual reference. Interpretration is key here. Independant sources do not offer this. It is individualised to the place and time.
Ask a Theme Master do they feel more important or have right of passage over other members?

As for the member since thing. I have seen many a "wizened" member use that against younger members. It may not have been used as often or as indiscriminately but it was used by almost all.

  • 10.03.2006 5:18 AM PDT

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