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  • Subject: What does the Community think of Forum Cop-ism?
Subject: What does the Community think of Forum Cop-ism?

What I mean by my previous post should be taken literally. I'll break it down.

If you're a "forum cop" you're assumed to have more experience than most people. When "helping" someone out such as a linking issue or teaching them tags. IT's assumed you know what you're doing and he does not, therefore you help him.

In this case "Forum Cop" takes the definition of "teacher". I'm sure most of you will agree with that, but as the inherent child, "Forum Cop" also takes the risks of the "teacher" as well. Can a teacher not be corrupt? Can a teacher be a bad one? Can a teacher be rude? I'm of course speaking out to all students in this forum (I'm sure most of you are students of some school) In short, if a teacher can be rude then a Forum Cop is no different. If a teacher can be a bad one so can a Forum Cop, which instigates Carnage Kaiser's quote of dmbfan09.

Because we tend to look at the negatives more than the positives (PS3 vs. Xbox 360 duh....) then it's going to overshadow. Most of you can agree with this taken cautiously.

So then is a Forum Cop good or bad? Most people argue it's a good thing while the thread conveys it could be a bad thing. I'm repeating myself at this point so lemme get back to what I've been quoted for the most.

A Teacher is higher than a student yes? A teacher has more experience. Now let's walk into Politics now. A teacher has the power, authority, and legitimacy to do what he/she does. On top of the experience the teacher has, he/she also has the 3 traits listed above. Now let's link it back to "Forum Cop"

A Forum Cop is assumed to have more experience otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they do, but does he she have the power to do it? Of course, freedom of posting! Does she have the legitimacy? Well, people do have problems and Forum Cops usually help them out because the Forum Cop have the knowledge the person seeks, therefore they will interact and "help" each other. But does the Forum Cop have the authority? Nope

And it's because of this that Forum Cop can be seen in two lights. The one that use their "assumed" authority rightly and those that don't. It's as simple as that and controversy stems from this root. Did I confuse anybody? I was thinking this as I typed so excuse my organisation.

  • 10.08.2006 6:58 PM PDT

I wanted to make one more point: Mentality.

The mentality is what governs your status and how you act. I believe a Forum Cop has to be accept he/she is better than the person he/she's helping otherwise it wouldn't make sense. It's kind of like how an skilled Halo 2 player will deny their skills and a charismic person will deny his potential. It's dumb and illogical. Bill Gates didn't get to where he is and told everyond along the way "I'm not smart"

What I feel on the subject personally is the Forum Cop trying to deny his status by saying.

"Oh I'm just a member helping out another member"

While in truth this is true, it could be twisted too. I could twist it so you could be a elitist, but you're being very modest about it. I could pull a flag on the moderators too. My point is that if you don't accept that you're trying to be a Forum Cop then you're really causing more grief. (I'm looking at you Iceman Assassin)

What's ironic is that this all ties back to Elitism, one of the things Bungie is trying to prevent.

[Edited on 10/8/2006]

  • 10.08.2006 7:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fantasy Star
A Forum Cop is assumed to have more experience otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they do, but does he she have the power to do it? Of course, freedom of posting! Does she have the legitimacy? Well, people do have problems and Forum Cops usually help them out because the Forum Cop have the knowledge the person seeks, therefore they will interact and "help" each other. But does the Forum Cop have the authority? Nope


Thing is, why do people call you Forum Cop for trying to help others? Sure, there are those who will flat out say "The Flood is not your Blog," then there are those who will say "The Flood isn't exactly the proper place for this stuff, but that was a very interesting story, here's my thoughts on the subject......," and they are still both viewed as "Cops."

And I know that people would rather have a clean forum that one with repeat offenders posting in all caps and linking us to shock sites. Yet time and time again, if you try to help ease some of the confusion going on in threads like this by saying "Don't respond to him guys, just PM a moderator," you're seen as a "cop."

But there are those who do it to help, and those who do it......because they just do. Heck, I saw someone say "Put this in the Classifieds, now stfu and gtfo." I guess in some eyes you can see him a "forum cop," especially if he continues to post this way. But in my eyes, he's not being a beneficial member, and I think that's partly the reason why it's becoming such a skewed term.

  • 10.08.2006 7:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fantasy Star

While in truth this is true, it could be twisted too. I could twist it so you could be a elitist, but you're being very modest about it. I could pull a flag on the moderators too. My point is that if you don't accept that you're trying to be a Forum Cop then you're really causing more grief. (I'm looking at you Iceman Assassin)



Oh trust me, I've already accepted the term. But I really don't think I'm better than anyone else.

Just because I know a rule doesn't make me "better" than the guy who doesn't. And even the spammers and flamers are viewed on the same level as me, in my eyes.

  • 10.08.2006 7:14 PM PDT

I know what you're talking about. It's just how we are. We don't like to feel inferior to other people, so we give them a term so we know who they are. I kinda laughed at this part.
Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
"Put this in the Classifieds, now stfu and gtfo.".


It's just the way it is and how I see it, the faster you start accepting being labeled a forum cop, the easier it will be in the future. I like it that members are helping one another. Social Contract people, Social Contract IF I was in your position, if being labeled a Forum Cop means I get to help people and improve the community then so be it. You just can't change the way people think, and I'm sure that's why you try to avoid being called one by saying you're not one. Ironic!

It just makes people more angry when you say you're not a Forum Cop, yet you still do whatever classifies you as one and you justify it as a member helping another one out. You just can't change people's minds. *sigh*

[Edited on 10/8/2006]

  • 10.08.2006 7:15 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

Well I kinda follow how I post by this rule that Recon told me:

Don't add fuel to a stoked fired

...or something like that.

Basically if you see a whole bunch of people breaking the rules there is no real reason to post and tell them they are breaking the rules. Just report it to a moderator. Because 9 times out of 7 someone is going to flame you and you aren't really doing anything but spamming spam, ironically.

  • 10.08.2006 7:17 PM PDT

So the only reason someone helps someone is so they can feel better than the person? What about just being a good person, and trying to help them and prevent them from getting a vacation from this site so they could become a wise and helpful member? Is that being elitist?

  • 10.08.2006 7:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fantasy Star
What I mean by my previous post should be taken literally. I'll break it down.

If you're a "forum cop" you're assumed to have more experience than most people. When "helping" someone out such as a linking issue or teaching them tags. IT's assumed you know what you're doing and he does not, therefore you help him.

In this case "Forum Cop" takes the definition of "teacher". I'm sure most of you will agree with that, but as the inherent child, "Forum Cop" also takes the risks of the "teacher" as well. Can a teacher not be corrupt? Can a teacher be a bad one? Can a teacher be rude? I'm of course speaking out to all students in this forum (I'm sure most of you are students of some school) In short, if a teacher can be rude then a Forum Cop is no different. If a teacher can be a bad one so can a Forum Cop, which instigates Carnage Kaiser's quote of dmbfan09.

Because we tend to look at the negatives more than the positives (PS3 vs. Xbox 360 duh....) then it's going to overshadow. Most of you can agree with this taken cautiously.

So then is a Forum Cop good or bad? Most people argue it's a good thing while the thread conveys it could be a bad thing. I'm repeating myself at this point so lemme get back to what I've been quoted for the most.

A Teacher is higher than a student yes? A teacher has more experience. Now let's walk into Politics now. A teacher has the power, authority, and legitimacy to do what he/she does. On top of the experience the teacher has, he/she also has the 3 traits listed above. Now let's link it back to "Forum Cop"

A Forum Cop is assumed to have more experience otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they do, but does he she have the power to do it? Of course, freedom of posting! Does she have the legitimacy? Well, people do have problems and Forum Cops usually help them out because the Forum Cop have the knowledge the person seeks, therefore they will interact and "help" each other. But does the Forum Cop have the authority? Nope

And it's because of this that Forum Cop can be seen in two lights. The one that use their "assumed" authority rightly and those that don't. It's as simple as that and controversy stems from this root. Did I confuse anybody? I was thinking this as I typed so excuse my organisation.

I was understanding what you were saying till you got to the 6th paragraph. From what I get from what you say, I understand that you believe that the "forum cop" is the teacher correct? If anything the mods are the teachers. The "forum cops" are the followers, so to speak. Or to apply it to the other term, teachers pets. I hate that term, but for acceptions sake I am using it anyway. Forum cop and teachers pet almost literally mean the same thing aswell. Helping regular members or students through their troubles and not focusing on the bad, only on the good. Helping the mod or teacher whenever they need it.

The regular students would be the members. What the teachers pets help. Okay, I even read that and it sounded confusing so let me break it down to a more simplistic level. For my sake so many won't go,"Dude! WTF are you talking about?"

Okay here is a chart:
Mods-Teacher
Forum cop-Teachers pet
Regular members(I.E.flamers, spammers, trolls, and one that need help)-Ordinary students

Now, the teachers teach. The teachers pet interprets what the teacher is saying and takes notes. While the ordinary students usually are looking out the window or using rulers to play sword fight of some sort.

From your post you made it seem that the forum cops have more power than others. Yes, the term forum cop can be thrown around lightly and may turn into a form of elitism. But the thing is, is it isn't. Forum cops interpret the rules. Helping in anyway they can.

Okay, it sounded like I was repeating myself so I am going off now, it is late and I am tired. Hopefully nobody fell asleep by my rambling of metaphors.

  • 10.08.2006 7:19 PM PDT

Posted by: Hobo GRrunt
So the only reason someone helps someone is so they can feel better than the person? What about just being a good person, and trying to help them and prevent them from getting a vacation from this site so they could become a wise and helpful member? Is that being elitist?


In the Bungie Community context, yes that's being an Elitist.

@M3 Roki7

The reason I ignored the "teacher's pet" rank is because teachers is a stronger word. But I do think I should've used teacher's pet instead. It makes more sense. The Forum Cop does get labeled as a Moderator suck-up too, so yeah. COMPLETELY missed that point. Bad me.

[Edited on 10/8/2006]

  • 10.08.2006 7:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Fantasy Star
Posted by: Hobo GRrunt
So the only reason someone helps someone is so they can feel better than the person? What about just being a good person, and trying to help them and prevent them from getting a vacation from this site so they could become a wise and helpful member? Is that being elitist?


In the Bungie Community context, yes that's being an Elitist.


Ah, so in order to avoid Elitism, people should just stop trying to contribute?

  • 10.08.2006 7:24 PM PDT
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That's true, Zee, which is why I've been doing that recently, but it's tough when it's hard to find someone to contact, and the thread is continually being bumped.

Like a couple weeks ago when the biggest piece of spam hit New Mombasa, I just sat there and watched it grow for 7 whole pages and didn't say anything because it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. But even if I had just turned one person away from that thread by speaking up, that would have been worth something, I guess. Maybe, maybe not.

By the way, here's a perfect example of what I was talking about. This is happening right now actually:

Posted by: Anonymous User 1

Misleading topics is one reason to get blacklisted


Posted by: Anonymous User 2 (in response to user 1)

Hey, who called the Forum Police?


Posted by: Anonymous User 3 (in response to user 1)

Thank you for letting us know that, Mr. Forum cop

  • 10.08.2006 7:25 PM PDT

Skillet was here and referred to himself in the third person.

I see two differant kinds of forum cop:

1. The guy who's posting as usual, sees a new member posting a question about Halo 3 in the Underground and simply states "Wrong forum, this belongs in the Halo 3 Forum" and then answers the question anyway.

2. The guy that runs to every single forum ten times over blurting out that everybody is posting in the wrong forum (even if they aren't) in hopes that the other moderators and Achronos would offer the position.

The former is a "helper" the latter is a "wannabe". I despise the latter.

  • 10.08.2006 7:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Hobo GRrunt
Ah, so in order to avoid Elitism, people should just stop trying to contribute?


No, it just means you should avoid those jerks all-together. Like I said, if being called a Forum Cop means you're helping the community then get used to being called a Forum Cop because the initials do get catchy after awhile.

@ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Yeah, that example sums up what's been going on at B.net lately.

@Skillet98
This is why we have this thread because we're trying to set the unofficial boundries for the Forum Cop before he gets labeled a "Moderator-wannabe"

[Edited on 10/8/2006]

  • 10.08.2006 7:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
That's true, Zee, which is why I've been doing that recently, but it's tough when it's hard to find someone to contact, and the thread is continually being bumped.

Like a couple weeks ago when the biggest piece of spam hit New Mombasa, I just sat there and watched it grow for 7 whole pages and didn't say anything because it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. But even if I had just turned one person away from that thread by speaking up, that would have been worth something, I guess. Maybe, maybe not.

By the way, here's a perfect example of what I was talking about. This is happening right now actually:

Posted by: Anonymous User 1

Misleading topics is one reason to get blacklisted


Posted by: Anonymous User 2 (in response to user 1)

Hey, who called the Forum Police?


Posted by: Anonymous User 3 (in response to user 1)

Thank you for letting us know that, Mr. Forum cop



Yeah, I know what thread your refering too.

I must add, I often see people flamed at for being a wanna-be forum cop. Weird, yes. But true. I often see people say, leave the copping to Iceman. (You don't mind using you as an example, do you?) Which I think that is the case here. __Censored User__, isn't excepted as a Forum cop by the B.net crowd... (Proved by this quote:)

Posted by: ____
Posted by: ____
Posted by: ____
I like the title of your topic.



misleading topics is one reason to get blacklisted.


well arent you mr.HelpyHelp today



...Hereby, flamed. I'm almost sure, if you were the one to say that, everyone would be saying:

Iceman is right, you shouldn't do that.

Culture acts ever so weird, but hey, were humans.

[Edited on 10/8/2006]

  • 10.08.2006 7:32 PM PDT

Sorry to be off-topic :)

I couldn't stop laughing at the links. I didn't know Blink 182.......damn, but yeah an awesome example of the state of B.net regarding Forum Cop.

  • 10.08.2006 7:36 PM PDT
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Well, I wouldn't have told him that he would be blacklisted.

I never tell people that they're going to be blacklisted, or even hinted at it.

An example would be a few days ago, when someone bypassed the filter with the "s" word. I said something like "Don't bypass the filter dude, virgin eyes over here."

I'd never say: "Don't bypass the filter or you're going to be blacklisted."

I think there's a difference between those two statements, in my opinion at least.

@Skillet- that's a perfect example.
@Fantasy Star- I agree that one must accept the term; I do.

  • 10.08.2006 7:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
Well, I wouldn't have told him that he would be blacklisted.

I never tell people that they're going to be blacklisted, or even hinted at it.

An example would be a few days ago, when someone bypassed the filter with the "s" word. I said something like "Don't bypass the filter dude, virgin eyes over here."

I'd never say: "Don't bypass the filter or you're going to be blacklisted."

I think there's a difference between those two statements, in my opinion at least.

@Skillet- that's a perfect example.
@Fantasy Star- I agree that one must accept the term; I do.


It was just an example, but you know what I'm trying to get at, right?

  • 10.08.2006 7:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Carnage Kaiser

It was just an example, but you know what I'm trying to get at, right?


Sorta.

  • 10.08.2006 7:43 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I had to fly through this thread, so bear with me if I make a mistake or two...

To begin: I am a Forum Cop. I will wear that "title" proudly until I die...or I stop coming to Bungie.net. Whichever comes first.

Secondly: I'm probably just restating an already stated fact, but there is a fine line between a "Forum Cop" and a "mod wanna-be." A Forum Cop points out the rules, but is helpful about it. A mod wanna-be just points out the rules. One wants to help the member, the other wants to gain points in the hopes they might get white text (though some are trying to help the community but don't realize their being a bit callous about it).

Thirdly: What is the logic to a Forum Cop? Technically, the only possible rationality is that all Forum Cops secretly wish to be noticed so they are picked next to be moderators. Then again, emotion must play a huge role in all of this. Therefore, all Forum Cops who do what they do in order to help the community are 100% irrational. But at least we're helpful irrational people.

Furthermore, we do it to help the member. Helping the community is a consequence of our actions, but we just want to help the member. That member gets treated kindly, realizes that they did something wrong, and behaves differently in the future (sometimes). Eventually, they become a bit more interested in the community (thinking that it is full of nice people, or that there are some nice people worth talking to), and become the good members we will eventually come to know and love.

At least, that was how I always viewed it...

  • 10.08.2006 7:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian
Furthermore, we do it to help the member. Helping the community is a consequence of our actions, but we just want to help the member. That member gets treated kindly, realizes that they did something wrong, and behaves differently in the future (sometimes). Eventually, they become a bit more interested in the community (thinking that it is full of nice people, or that there are some nice people worth talking to), and become the good members we will eventually come to know and love.

At least, that was how I always viewed it...


And I think you nailed it 100%

  • 10.08.2006 8:01 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

In my opinion Forum cops are good and Bad,


Some Forum cops, just be forum cops to get noticed by the mods in hopes to become one.
They can somtimes be either very nice to the person they are correcting, or be snotty.

Others are just some older members who are helping some of the new guys find there way around. These are good cops just doing their part and not thinking anything of it.

  • 10.08.2006 8:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
In my opinion Forum cops are good and Bad,


Some Forum cops, just be forum cops to get noticed by the mods in hopes to become one.
They can somtimes be either very nice to the person they are correcting, or be snotty.

Others are just some older members who are helping some of the new guys find there way around. These are good cops just doing their part and not thinking anything of it.


I'd actually prefer not calling the former "Forum Cops" at all. While I do find the following statement ironic*, those who are trying to gain some sort of "cool point," look good in the eyes of the moderators, or anything of the like should not be called "Forum Cops."

*I believe the term "Forum Cop" was actually originated by Shishka, upon blacklisting Kilroy and telling him not to act like a "wanna-be mod," though perhaps I am misinterpreting the situation and either Shishka never said anything like this or he just doesn't like Forum Cops period.

  • 10.08.2006 8:08 PM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
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Posted by: Mabian
Posted by: EAGLES5
In my opinion Forum cops are good and Bad,


Some Forum cops, just be forum cops to get noticed by the mods in hopes to become one.
They can somtimes be either very nice to the person they are correcting, or be snotty.

Others are just some older members who are helping some of the new guys find there way around. These are good cops just doing their part and not thinking anything of it.


I'd actually prefer not calling the former "Forum Cops" at all. While I do find the following statement ironic*, those who are trying to gain some sort of "cool point," look good in the eyes of the moderators, or anything of the like should not be called "Forum Cops."

*I believe the term "Forum Cop" was actually originated by Shishka, upon blacklisting Kilroy and telling him not to act like a "wanna-be mod," though perhaps I am misinterpreting the situation and either Shishka never said anything like this or he just doesn't like Forum Cops period.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever seen the term Forum Cop used in a good way, besides threads like this one. When it's used in real conversations, it always seems to be in a somewhat negative way, even when used by moderators. But maybe that's just my interpretation.

  • 10.08.2006 8:18 PM PDT
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Yeah, nowadays it seems like there are two kinds of "Forum Cops."

Upon coming across a spam thread, one type of Forum Cop would say:

"This is spam and will be locked."

Whereas another would say:

"Thread Creator, just because it says 'Say your stupid stuff here' doesn't mean you should spam. You can still edit your post so that we can discuss something though."

One is there to sort of bring him down, and the other is there to help him- and potentially make it seem like nothing bad happened at all, and no moderator intervention is needed. In that case, the latter is doing it to help the community, not be noticed.

I'd actually prefer not calling the former "Forum Cops" at all. While I do find the following statement ironic*, those who are trying to gain some sort of "cool point," look good in the eyes of the moderators, or anything of the like should not be called "Forum Cops."

Agreed. But as of now, both the good and the bad Forum Cops are going to continue being called the same thing. Unless we can somehow change that.

  • 10.08.2006 8:22 PM PDT