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Posted by: Recon Number 54

* Guest - (no Passport) Can access the site, browse the main page and linked pages, read the public forums, learn about Bungie, their games, as well as their history and the fan community. The "Support Page" and (at this time) the "Halo 3" and "Halo 2 Vista" sections would be likely points of interest. This would be the typical "customer" visitor. They have played various Halo games and are interested in more. They are more interested in news and information about Halo 3, but have the ability to see that there is more here than a typical developer's site

* Bungie Customer - (basic MS Passport) By creating a Bungie.Net account, this visitor can do anything that the previous visitor can and slightly more. They also have the ability to interact with the site at a certain level. Some forums related to current games are available for them to post in. New Mombasa, Halo 3 and The News would be available, but the ability to create new topics would be restricted (perhaps 1 per day) and a flood-control would also restrict/prevent rapid fire spamming. This would be the typical "involved customer". They actively play the Halo games, are discovering that there is a community and what that community has to offer. They are still interested in news and other information about Halo 3, but want to talk about the games they play and interact with other who play them too.


* Bungie Gamer - (basic MS Passport with a linked, active and non-suspended Gamertag) This level of member can (as before) do anything that the previous member can do, and more. Because they have linked their gamertag, they also enjoy the added feature of viewing their stats and seeing their friends list online. In addition, they can now JOIN existing 7th Column Groups. Those groups can be clan-related, game-related, or any valid and existing part of the 7th column. They can visit and post in New Mombasa and Halo 3 (as with the previous level) but now have more lenient posting and topic creation privileges. Because they have a linked and non-suspended gamertag (no cheaters thank you) they can also take part in Optimatch, The Library, and The Classifieds at this time (the previous level's create/reply restrictions apply). This would be the typical "customer/fan". They actively play the Halo games, are part of the community and are benefiting from the offerings that it has. They can sample the 7th Column and offer their views in Optimatch (since they are valid players) and use the Classifieds to locate/recruit/advertise for others.

* Bungie Game Fan - (MS Passport but with associated personal data (registered game, CD-code, or some method of verifying ID. Linked gamertag is an option, but not required) This level of member would have full access to the public forums and the 7th Column. Much like a standard member account today, they are able to create and join groups, create and post in the standard public forums. Any throttling of posts is set at the current level. This level of membership would be very much like what all typical members see today. Previous accounts would have to be grandfathered, but all new accounts would need to have that (as of yet unknown) form of ID verification that makes their account a "one time only" proposition. Non-console gamers could register using their CD-key, those with gamertags could also link.

* Bungie FAN - (MS Passport and an account that has been recognized as a positive contributor and member of the fan community) This level of membership would be similar to a typical member today, but would additionally offer "hidden" content on the site. This content could be additional forums (where Bungie employees regularly visit and post), insider commentary and information, a sort of "group membership". Members at this level are in as a "one shot deal". If they abuse or misbehave while at this level, they can be warned, but if they are disciplined, they lose their benefits and the account cannot be "re-elevated" to enjoy those privileges. This one is the real "unknown". What benefits or perks would be attractive and reasonable? What would those members be allowed to see, and how would leaks and other potential risks be contained? More questions than answers, I am afraid.

Well, it's just an idea, and a long winded one I know. Plenty of problems with it, plenty of holes, and it depends on some sort of ID system that I don't know exists. It also depends on whether or not security on this site is flexible enough to allow for such tiers of access to forums and flood-control.


Some ideas are good with that, but i dont like it that only linked GTs can see stats and such.

Also, people have gotten suspendedn and or banned wrongfully, or what if an accidental BL occurs? They pay an irreversible and ultimate penalty? Me no liky that part.

But if we were to fix the holes in your system, it might be a good idea.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Sweet, theres somthing I learned today

Im gonna use those all the time now yay recon * * * v teh bullet master

  • 10.12.2006 3:42 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

I didn't realize that spammers and other varieties of jerk were such a problem here. In my opinion, its much nicer (and safer) on this site than the majority of other boards I've been to. But if it really is a problem, then something must be done.

I like a lot of the ideas that have been thrown out here. Especially the add-ons for higher echelon members. That would be a good reward for those who get there either by useful contributions or a paid system. I think elitism would still run rampant though. There is no way to avoid that problem anyway, so I guess we all have to just live with it. On the other hand, this would allot more potential consequences for violations, and maybe rewards for following the rules.

I don't like the gamertag clause though. It might disallow some of those who don't have C.C.'s or live to participate. Although, if the gamertag clause was only one way to get to that user level, I could understand its implementation.

Well, if new and interesting methods of registering are required, I'm just hoping for a grandfather clause. I don't want to have to do anything else to maintain my B.net account other that following the rules.

I'll look foward to reading all the rest of these innovations as the community creates them.

  • 10.12.2006 4:17 PM PDT

(10:19:49 PM) Scruss: oh and pezza, i saw what you did to that cat
(10:20:17 PM) Pezza: You were the one with the video camera breathing heavily. Of course you saw.

I like this idea, It would be able to sperate (yes it would be good) those who are just here because its a bandwagon franchise or if they are really interested to register.

  • 10.12.2006 4:32 PM PDT
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Wow, that was a long read, but an enjoyable read. Now to get down to business.

Posted by: just another fan
A while ago, someone mentioned the idea of registering a game before being able to join this website. Dmbfan mentioned the idea of joining this website only if you had a credit card. Recon is always blabbing about how an account should have more value.

Now the problem with registry and credit cards is, if someone doesn't have one of those evil cards, or doesn't have a Bungie game yet, he can't join. And there is this problem: let's say there are two brothers, but they only have one copy of halo 2. That means that only one can join this website.

So I have been thinking, and while browsing through the Bioware forums, I realized something; If one wants to have an avatar and signature in that place, he has to register a game. He can join, interact, but he misses all the extras.

If one should ask me, that's a pretty good way to add more value to an account. Especially if you add community exclusives to the website.
You know, exclusive screenshots, interviews, articles, movies even. Just for the people who registered a game, or used their credit card to join.

Let's look at all the people who are begging for new Halo 3 screenshots for instance. They'll be a lot more careful, they don't want to risk the chance of being banned and thereby missing all those juicy new screenshots or something.
And oh, little brother Jimmy can always look over brother Bobo's shoulder to see that new screenshot.

Dunno, just throwing out ideas here.

I like this idea. Although Recons is more of an add-on to make it better, Rome wasn't built in a day though, so I see your post just another fan, as one of many baby steps.

Posted by: Rant
So you'd basically have a regular site and a "pay site". Which would tie the forums and the site more so to merchandizing. Which means the site would be about marketing. Which I was told is not the case. But I dont believe that anyway, so thats fine.

Really the guys at PA poke fun at this type of thinking all the time. And rightfully so.

I do not see how this would become a "pay site". As if we were to give a credit card, we may only use it when we please, like the bungie store. If one were to actually pay for using on the site I am sure a message would pop-up stating so. Or bungie would promtly state it before you were to join the site, or in Recons case, go up another level.

I also believe that bungie, if using a CC number were to come into place, I am sure bungie would not steer away from its true goal of the bungie.net site. That being the fans, if it were to steer more towards marketing I believe that many people would be delightful to shop around as many can do already at the bungie store. But it would be advertised a bit more. Not that it would change many people view of the site, but just to point out that bungie does indeed sell merchandise. Not to focus for people to buy, just to place advertisements of the bungie store in more locations.

Now, I do not have space for Recons post in here, so I will add my opinion to that once someone replys to my post. That way I do not have to double post.

  • 10.12.2006 5:09 PM PDT

*Sgt

Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: Rant
So you'd basically have a regular site and a "pay site"

No. You don't have to pay. You simply will be missing extras, such as avatars, signatures, etc.
It's a way to make sure people will hold more value to their account. And it's a way to prevent people from making multiple accounts.


Don't you think anybody that would pay for extras on this site already holds some kind of value of their account? How does it stop them from making multiple accounts?

I know I sound critical (which I'm not trying to be), but I couldn't word it any other way :p

the idea itself is good though

[Edited on 10/12/2006]

  • 10.12.2006 5:19 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: M3 Roki7
Wow, that was a long read, but an enjoyable read. Now to get down to business.

Posted by: just another fan
.... Recon is always blabbing about how an account should have more value. .

Now, I do not have space for Recons post in here, so I will add my opinion to that once someone replys to my post. That way I do not have to double post.

Wait a minute!

I "blab"?


It's really proper, grammatically correct blabbing, but yeah, blabbing nevertheless. It's ok Recon, I enjoy your blabbing.

  • 10.12.2006 5:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: M3 Roki7
Wow, that was a long read, but an enjoyable read. Now to get down to business.

Posted by: just another fan
.... Recon is always blabbing about how an account should have more value. .

Now, I do not have space for Recons post in here, so I will add my opinion to that once someone replys to my post. That way I do not have to double post.

Wait a minute!

I "blab"?

Lol, no, it is just that that post was and is a little under 8,000 characters. Although sometimes I do start and skim your posts after a while. I tried to shorten it, but I started to get down to nitty gritty stuff so I just said to hell with it. Anyway, sorry for such a long post away but I have been surfing the xbox.com forums. Anyway, on to business.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Actually, I think that this is addressing a common problem and misconception of the purpose of this site. We've discussed it previously, and it seems that it's raising its head here are well.

The difficulty is that some visitors to this site are Bungie-fans (either new or historical) and some visitors are Bungie-customers. Neither is "better" or "worse", but they each have different expectations and desire different experiences. One is focused on the product and information about the product, the other is interested in the less tangible aspects of the community, the team, the culture and so on.

Certain parts of the site are there for either type of visitor. The front page for example contains current events and news. While some aspects of it may be confusing for certain visitors (for example, a customer could easily wonder what the big deal is about Mister Chief, or the Webmaster, or Marty's manservant) but those things are part of Bungie and the fans and the customers are going to hear about them.

But the rest of the site, that is different.

A customer is not going to visit (as part of their intended reason for visiting) the "meet the team" or "letters to the Webmaster", the 7th Column, or the historical sections. They are hitting the front page news related to Halo 2 and/or 3, maybe hitting a few of the forums, and that is it. They don't care about the Bungie Fan Community (generally) and they don't have to.

But a Bungie fan, they've read the "meet the team" page and know the Bungie employees by name and role. They understand and fear the Bungie Webmaster, they're part of the 7th Column, they read the front page and visit multiple forums. That's what they do as a fan, they participate in the community.

The idea of making different types of member accounts could address this as well another desired function. Many months ago (close to a few years) Sketch and Achronos mentioned that they were considering and thinking about a Karma (for lack of a better term) system that had the ability to "reward" and recognize positive, contributory and helpful members of the community. Ideas were tossed around, but the obvious pitfalls of elitism and "boosting" were also made clear.

However, if a method is found to make a member account more "worth having", then perhaps we have the ability to solve all 3 issues (fans/customers, rewarding positive members, restricting disruptive ones) with a single solution.

Let's look at the current two-tier system that we have. Someone can either visit as a guest (no Passport) or as a registered member. Guests can browse the front page, visit the forums, but they have VERY limited personal interaction with the site.

Registered members (with an MS Passport) have full-membership privs. They can post on the forums, create and join groups, and so on.

Perhaps it is time to consider a newer and more precise membership structure.

* Guest - (no Passport) Can access the site, browse the main page and linked pages, read the public forums, learn about Bungie, their games, as well as their history and the fan community. The "Support Page" and (at this time) the "Halo 3" and "Halo 2 Vista" sections would be likely points of interest. This would be the typical "customer" visitor. They have played various Halo games and are interested in more. They are more interested in news and information about Halo 3, but have the ability to see that there is more here than a typical developer's site

* Bungie Customer - (basic MS Passport) By creating a Bungie.Net account, this visitor can do anything that the previous visitor can and slightly more. They also have the ability to interact with the site at a certain level. Some forums related to current games are available for them to post in. New Mombasa, Halo 3 and The News would be available, but the ability to create new topics would be restricted (perhaps 1 per day) and a flood-control would also restrict/prevent rapid fire spamming. This would be the typical "involved customer". They actively play the Halo games, are discovering that there is a community and what that community has to offer. They are still interested in news and other information about Halo 3, but want to talk about the games they play and interact with other who play them too.


* Bungie Gamer - (basic MS Passport with a linked, active and non-suspended Gamertag) This level of member can (as before) do anything that the previous member can do, and more. Because they have linked their gamertag, they also enjoy the added feature of viewing their stats and seeing their friends list online. In addition, they can now JOIN existing 7th Column Groups. Those groups can be clan-related, game-related, or any valid and existing part of the 7th column. They can visit and post in New Mombasa and Halo 3 (as with the previous level) but now have more lenient posting and topic creation privileges. Because they have a linked and non-suspended gamertag (no cheaters thank you) they can also take part in Optimatch, The Library, and The Classifieds at this time (the previous level's create/reply restrictions apply). This would be the typical "customer/fan". They actively play the Halo games, are part of the community and are benefiting from the offerings that it has. They can sample the 7th Column and offer their views in Optimatch (since they are valid players) and use the Classifieds to locate/recruit/advertise for others.

* Bungie Game Fan - (MS Passport but with associated personal data (registered game, CD-code, or some method of verifying ID. Linked gamertag is an option, but not required) This level of member would have full access to the public forums and the 7th Column. Much like a standard member account today, they are able to create and join groups, create and post in the standard public forums. Any throttling of posts is set at the current level. This level of membership would be very much like what all typical members see today. Previous accounts would have to be grandfathered, but all new accounts would need to have that (as of yet unknown) form of ID verification that makes their account a "one time only" proposition. Non-console gamers could register using their CD-key, those with gamertags could also link.

* Bungie FAN - (MS Passport and an account that has been recognized as a positive contributor and member of the fan community) This level of membership would be similar to a typical member today, but would additionally offer "hidden" content on the site. This content could be additional forums (where Bungie employees regularly visit and post), insider commentary and information, a sort of "group membership". Members at this level are in as a "one shot deal". If they abuse or misbehave while at this level, they can be warned, but if they are disciplined, they lose their benefits and the account cannot be "re-elevated" to enjoy those privileges. This one is the real "unknown". What benefits or perks would be attractive and reasonable? What would those members be allowed to see, and how would leaks and other potential risks be contained? More questions than answers, I am afraid.

Well, it's just an idea, and a long winded one I know. Plenty of problems with it, plenty of holes, and it depends on some sort of ID system that I don't know exists. It also depends on whether or not security on this site is flexible enough to allow for such tiers of access to forums and flood-control.

Like I said. Just an idea. I've really got no ego involved in it, so I am willing to discuss, clarify, and evolve it. But I am certainly not going to defend it.

Wow, and I still only have a thousand characters, I will try and make this as short as possible.

On-topic:I do agree with your post, infact I highly agree. Yes, as you said there needs to be a few tweaks here and there, but in all that is a good skeleton for a website ranking system, not elitism mind you.

I also believe that this system would almost get rid of of elitism itself. Although we all know that is highly improbable. But we will notice, that with this system, even the skeleton mind you. That the Bungie Customer and Bungie FAN, and everyone else in between, will hardly interact with one another other than those of the same "rank". If possible though, I would hide these ranks, make it to where everyone still has the title "member" but not a noticable difference except for the way the person acts.

And yes, I too believe that many people would respect their accounts more than they do now. Also, we may be able to get an archive of CD-keys and a Game codes, and possibly CC numbers, so that many people will be rarely be able to create more than a single account. Other than that, I see your skeleton of a ranking system nearly perfect. Elitism would be more discouraged and nealy gone, And many more people would respect their bungie.net accounts for much more than what they already are.

Hope you enjoyed the read. Don't quote me!

[Edited on 10/12/2006]

  • 10.12.2006 5:45 PM PDT

I still don't get why he thinks it would be a pay site if the extra features only pertained to a game that someone had already bought. Anywho, I don't wanna argue that anymore as I have made up my mind on that matter. Meanwhile...

I am curious about something that pertains to the possible use of a credit card to register for extra privilages granted by going that way, if it were to ever be implemented. Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but to verify that your credit/debit card is genuine and active, doesn't it have to be run for some dollar amount? I believe that it is most often just a dollar that is charged to it, but still, isn't this correct? Isn't that how credit/debit card gas pumps work? They run a dollar to your card to make sure it will work, and then whatever monetary amount of gas you get they then charge the card minus the dollar already paid.

And another thing. I was under the impression that the merchant providing the use of the card system must pay for each transaction made. I was a manager at a restaurant and I was looking through the credit card transactions and how much we were getting charged for people to use it. When I divided the amount we paid for the card machine transactions by how many transactions were actually made, it came up to around three dollars per transaction. I think this is why a lot of places require purchase amounts of at least 5 dollars or some other amount. Maybe it is different in regard to credit versus debit card transactions.

I am just trying to find out if THIS would eliminate the possibility of a system based off of credit card registering. I would not like the idea of or think that Bungie would go for a system like this where they(the company) would have to pay money everytime someone wanted to register. Thoughts?

  • 10.12.2006 6:43 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Spec: To verify the card, they start a transfer, usually like one dollar. But they don't complete the transfer, and you pay no money. But I'm not sure about what it would cost Bungie.

Rant: I don't think you understand the point. The credit card is only used to verify that you are a real person. You aren't charged any money.

That said, there are a few flaws with the credit card system, which have already been mentioned. So, in my opinion, it wouldn't really be the best identification system.

  • 10.12.2006 10:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Reiginko
Good to see at least somebody takes this place seriously

I am sincerely disappointed in everyone except JIMH. JIMH, have a gold star.


',:\ IF YA SAHMELLLL

Any kind of teir system would only lead to the big "E" word--elitism. If you were to make any type of classification or exclusive content availible to specially registered posters then there would be discrimination. I like that everyone, with the exception of the moderater's and Bungie staff, is equal on this site.

I also think that the 24 hour waiting period for new accounts will slow down the spammers from making multiple accounts, while at the same time giving new members time to stop and think before they start posting. Who know's? A small percentage might even get bored and read the stickies...

  • 10.12.2006 11:38 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

I don't think that the 24 hour delay would help all that much, actually. I get the feeling that many would simply create a bunch of accounts one day, then wait until the next day to start spamming. It would help a little, at least, but I don't think it would be a solution just by itself.

  • 10.13.2006 12:51 AM PDT

Heh, it's sort of like the Gold and Silver Membership types on Xbox Live. I kinda like this idea.

  • 10.13.2006 5:55 AM PDT
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I've seen some really good ideas and criticism.
Personally, I hate credit cards, I don't have one either, and I probably never will. I just hate them. to me, this idea isn't just about keeping out spammers and the lot, but also to make an account a bit more precious. Something that is a bit more fun to have.

  • 10.13.2006 8:32 AM PDT

That's it! Everybody give me their social security number!

Anyway, I know the use of credit cards sucks, but it is very common to use a credit card as a virtual ID. I know I use a credit card at airports when I am picking up my E-Ticket in the express lane...

  • 10.13.2006 8:54 AM PDT

the only thing i can think of which is available to adults and non adults would be a reward card/member like what GAME do. you have to give personnal information away and its unique. the problem with it though is who would do make the reward/members card?

  • 10.13.2006 9:16 AM PDT

yeah pretty much.lol. never new that existed, thanks. Back on subject though, you need a live account and a gamercard to link it to, but def something like that would work.

[Edited on 10/13/2006]

  • 10.13.2006 9:22 AM PDT

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