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Subject: Guilty spark knew Master Cheif b4 the events of halo 1
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Guilty spark knew Master Cheif b4 the events of halo 1, or someone who wore the MJOLNIR armour. It is the only logical way to explain the transcripts below which are taken from various points in Halo CE levels, namely "two betrayls" and "the maw."

"(pauses) More or less. Technically, this installation's pulse has a maximum effective radius of twenty-five thousand light years. But, once the others follow suit, this galaxy will be quite devoid of life, or at least any life with sufficient biomass to sustain the flood. (pause) But you already knew that. I mean, how couldn't you?"

"Why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?"

[edit] ok not so strong proof, seen as Master Cheif put the index in the control pannel and cortana stopped him [/edit]

"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."

"You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating. "

I got these transcripts from http://halo.bungie.org/

Check out the story pages for more ideas.

I'd like to know what people think of this and if anyone has noticed it before. I will also start a thread in the halo 3 section of this sight where people can post ideas on the implications of this for halo 3.

[edit] a few ideas that have come up in the thread
Forerunners are related to humans in some way, exactly how is up for debate.
MC could just look like a forerunner in the armour and being bipedal, the reasoning is a bit thin as the elites are bipedal as well
MC and GS could have been talking during transit as they teleported to the control room so the dialogue is uncomplete. [/edit]

[Edited on 11/3/2006]

  • 10.12.2006 10:41 AM PDT

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Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

If you've just found this, well done. But this debate has been run through and through and through a hundred times on these forums.

The answer is either that 343GS does know MC specifically for whatever reason, that 343GS is talking about Reclaimers in general (i.e. any Humans) or that 343GS has simply lost his mind from being on his own for 100,000 years.

  • 10.12.2006 11:02 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

try reading "the flood" novel. there is more dialouge between 343GS and MC. if you put the two together it leads you to believe that another human came in contact with GS before MC, but did not make it through the library. in regards to the statement "why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?" it's a rhetorical question that GS asked after the inserted the index into halo's core, and then heeding cortana's warning after she stopped the reaction. kind of like someone deciding not to start the engine of their car after turning the key 3/4's of the way. and the final statement about "last time you asked me. . ." i think either he has just lost it, or it is in reference to previous dialouge that wasn't featured or he is just off his rocker. that's my take on it anyway.

  • 10.12.2006 12:16 PM PDT
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The rings were only activated once before, this was to the best of my knowledge by the forerunners, if 343 recognises the chief as someone who activated the rings, that must mean he went back in time. I think in halo CE 343 says something like "there have been x number practice firings and one actual". This implies that the chief was the one who detonated the rings originally, leading to the forerunners demise. It seems unlikely that the chief would have travelled back to the time of the forerunners and been the activator of the rings, maybe bungie hasn't expressly retracted this as halo canon, and so we're working from incorrect information and are thus forming bad hypotheses.

My opinion is that bungie has once again tried to confuse us with something seemingly abnormal, but that they have no doubt left a loophole allowing halo 3 to seem quite logical.

Does this make sense?

[Edited on 10/12/2006]

  • 10.12.2006 12:20 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

the time travel thing is way off base. MC had no knowledge of the rings or their workings. by all rights there is no way that GS could recognize MC personally, but he may recognize the armor. the mjolnir armor in't exactly a human copyright.

  • 10.12.2006 12:24 PM PDT
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The forerunners had much better armour, the chief's being described as a class 2, much below par. To see such primitive technology at the time of the forerunners destruction, which must have been near their height would have been very distinct and recognisable. A part from this the forerunners use different styles, and 343 as an advanced AI could I believe differentiate easily between different people. Seeing as humans as we know them did not exist it seems fair to hypothesise that 343 knows that he is talking to the chief, who he talked with last time the rings were activated. The chief also says nothing in response to 343 when he talks of their having activated the rings before, this implies the chief recognizes the rings were activated by himself.

  • 10.12.2006 12:29 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: QuelParoxysm
The forerunners had much better armour, the chief's being described as a class 2, much below par. To see such primitive technology at the time of the forerunners destruction, which must have been near their height would have been very distinct and recognisable. A part from this the forerunners use different styles, and 343 as an advanced AI could I believe differentiate easily between different people. Seeing as humans as we know them did not exist it seems fair to hypothesise that 343 knows that he is talking to the chief, who he talked with last time the rings were activated. The chief also says nothing in response to 343 when he talks of their having activated the rings before, this implies the chief recognizes the rings were activated by himself.


the armour is below class, which could also conclude that whatever humans were able to produce from borrowed technology was inferior to the current "forrunner standard" at the time of their demise. i'm not calling it an impossiblity, it's just there is no real evidence to support the claim. after all people stay silent as a sign of many things, confusion, bewilderment, shock, all of which are far more common reactions then accepting that at some point one traveled through time.

  • 10.12.2006 12:37 PM PDT
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I don't think 343GS "sees" in the same sense we do. He classifies. I think reclaimer is the term given to somebody who can put the index into the control room's main computer. I think that the Forrunner who did this last time asked 343GS if he would do it. 343 GS doesn't understand the difference between forrunners and humans, which is probably an indication that they are similar.

  • 10.12.2006 12:39 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
I don't think 343GS "sees" in the same sense we do. He classifies. I think reclaimer is the term given to somebody who can put the index into the control room's main computer. I think that the Forrunner who did this last time asked 343GS if he would do it. 343 GS doesn't understand the difference between forrunners and humans, which is probably an indication that they are similar.


excellent input! kind of what i was getting at, but you worded it better. whether there is a relationship between the forrunners and humans has yet to be defined. but if they both fall under the classification of "reclaimer" and wore a similar armor, it's very believable that GS just made the error.

  • 10.12.2006 12:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
I don't think 343GS "sees" in the same sense we do. He classifies. I think reclaimer is the term given to somebody who can put the index into the control room's main computer. I think that the Forrunner who did this last time asked 343GS if he would do it. 343 GS doesn't understand the difference between forrunners and humans, which is probably an indication that they are similar.


excellent input! kind of what i was getting at, but you worded it better. whether there is a relationship between the forrunners and humans has yet to be defined. but if they both fall under the classification of "reclaimer" and wore a similar armor, it's very believable that GS just made the error.

If you think about it the armor is irrelivant, because a human had already tried to get the index, but he couldn't survive the Library as said in the book I"m betting my money that the Forruners have an incredibly similar build to humans, and they think in much the same way.

  • 10.12.2006 12:53 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
I don't think 343GS "sees" in the same sense we do. He classifies. I think reclaimer is the term given to somebody who can put the index into the control room's main computer. I think that the Forrunner who did this last time asked 343GS if he would do it. 343 GS doesn't understand the difference between forrunners and humans, which is probably an indication that they are similar.


excellent input! kind of what i was getting at, but you worded it better. whether there is a relationship between the forrunners and humans has yet to be defined. but if they both fall under the classification of "reclaimer" and wore a similar armor, it's very believable that GS just made the error.

If you think about it the armor is irrelivant, because a human had already tried to get the index, but he couldn't survive the Library as said in the book I"m betting my money that the Forruners have an incredibly similar build to humans, and they think in much the same way.


hmmm, possible i suppose, but the comment made about MC's armor by GS still confuses me. he obviously has seen higher class armor before, and if not from a human, then who else?? i think the only other option would have to be a forerunner.

  • 10.12.2006 1:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: X 10000 Fists X
I don't think 343GS "sees" in the same sense we do. He classifies. I think reclaimer is the term given to somebody who can put the index into the control room's main computer. I think that the Forrunner who did this last time asked 343GS if he would do it. 343 GS doesn't understand the difference between forrunners and humans, which is probably an indication that they are similar.


excellent input! kind of what i was getting at, but you worded it better. whether there is a relationship between the forrunners and humans has yet to be defined. but if they both fall under the classification of "reclaimer" and wore a similar armor, it's very believable that GS just made the error.

If you think about it the armor is irrelivant, because a human had already tried to get the index, but he couldn't survive the Library as said in the book I"m betting my money that the Forruners have an incredibly similar build to humans, and they think in much the same way.


hmmm, possible i suppose, but the comment made about MC's armor by GS still confuses me. he obviously has seen higher class armor before, and if not from a human, then who else?? i think the only other option would have to be a forerunner.


It's all very interesting. I suppose wheen u think about it MC's armour is based on covenant tech and we know that some covenant tech is based on forerunner tech. So I suppose if we assume the cheif has a similar build to the forerunners then its not too hard to imagine Guilty Spark having seen the same sort of shape but higher class armour before.

  • 10.12.2006 4:46 PM PDT
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I'm still not buying the solution to this part yet.

"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."

It all seems too personal and directed at the cheif. I suppose he could classify all humans as reclaimers, possibly the decendants of the forerunners, but it's still to precise a statement. An advanced AI like guilty spark should be able to spot the difference between the cheif and whoever activated the rings in the first place. If it was the forerunners then shorely they would not be classified by GS as reclaimers.

I haven't read the halo novels but u mention a human trying to gain the index before. Well maybe that was a spartan who asked the question. It would also make sense as to why guilty spark seems to recognise the cheif and transport him to the library rather than any of the other marines. Then again this could be because of MCs armour.

Oh, I'm getting so confused.

Maybe its Bungie messing with our heads.

  • 10.12.2006 4:55 PM PDT
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try "the forrunners" are ancient humans and add up the data from the books and the games and u'll get it

  • 10.13.2006 9:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
the time travel thing is way off base. MC had no knowledge of the rings or their workings. by all rights there is no way that GS could recognize MC personally, but he may recognize the armor. the mjolnir armor in't exactly a human copyright.


I agree. He recognized advanced armor.

  • 10.13.2006 11:57 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: zaktan382
try "the forrunners" are ancient humans and add up the data from the books and the games and u'll get it


that would make sense if the forrunners were the precursors to humans. but there has yet to be any solid proof of that possibility.

  • 10.13.2006 1:52 PM PDT
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posted by:Achronos
Less self-righteous posturing and ad hominem attacks will keep this thread open and its participants' posting privileges retained.

i think a robot as intelligent as spark (he seems to know what he's doing) would know the difference betweeen speaking to one human and speaking to humanity. he was speaking to MC in specific. i think it is a time paradox. i'm not sure, though

  • 10.13.2006 1:53 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: wolfnight
I'm still not buying the solution to this part yet.

"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."

It all seems too personal and directed at the cheif. I suppose he could classify all humans as reclaimers, possibly the decendants of the forerunners, but it's still to precise a statement. An advanced AI like guilty spark should be able to spot the difference between the cheif and whoever activated the rings in the first place. If it was the forerunners then shorely they would not be classified by GS as reclaimers.

I haven't read the halo novels but u mention a human trying to gain the index before. Well maybe that was a spartan who asked the question. It would also make sense as to why guilty spark seems to recognise the cheif and transport him to the library rather than any of the other marines. Then again this could be because of MCs armour.

Oh, I'm getting so confused.

Maybe its Bungie messing with our heads.


in the book it was a marine that GS tried to "assis." i still think it is more of a possibility that the comment was made based on dialouge that wasn't featured in the game or was in the book somewhere, then MC travelling through time to detonate it once before. i don't know, nor does anyone really. it could just be a plot loop that is never going to be tied off, which is very common in games/books/movies.

  • 10.13.2006 1:57 PM PDT
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I dont really like the idea of MC time travelling, although its an explination that has yet to be disproved, I don't like it. Could be a big plot twist, but 4 the moment I think I'll leave guilty spark's comments as stuff that is more general than specific.

For the moment the most plausible explination is something along the lines of humans being the decendants of the forerunners. But I guess we will have to wait 4 halo 3 to get the whole truth. In the meantime I've got some halo books to get hold of and read. With Ghosts of Onyx coming out soon I better get going.

  • 10.13.2006 3:41 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

you really should, there really well written. i would recommend them even to someone who is not a fan of the game.

  • 10.13.2006 3:46 PM PDT
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I knew this but well done on the quotes. thats why i kinda lean into thinking the thing we see in the H3 trailer isnt the Ark but some kind of time machine or the Ark DOES fire but knocks the cheif into a different timeline.

  • 10.13.2006 3:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Toko
I knew this but well done on the quotes. thats why i kinda lean into thinking the thing we see in the H3 trailer isnt the Ark but some kind of time machine or the Ark DOES fire but knocks the cheif into a different timeline.


Thanks. That's a new idea, I haven't heard b4. If I remmber right there was something about time travel in one of bungie's earlier games called Marathon. But I hope it isn't the answer because I think it would suck a bit.

  • 10.13.2006 4:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
you really should, there really well written. i would recommend them even to someone who is not a fan of the game.


Luckily I'm a fan of the game and I was looking on Amazon the other day and the books r going pretty cheap. I was wondering though. Is the book Halo; The Flood worth it as the story is the same as Halo CE. I wasn't sure.

  • 10.13.2006 4:30 PM PDT
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K you took this way to out of portion. There is alotta theories on what is going on wiht how there is a Mark XII armor while the mc has Mark II compaired to the forerunners...its wierd

  • 10.13.2006 5:44 PM PDT
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I havent read the posts above, but it's as simple as this, the rings have been activated before, not the masterchief, or some random marine, but a forerunner, when guilty spark said why would you hesitate to do what you already done? he is simply stateing that "your" kind has activated the rings before, why would you hesitate a second time? Furthering the proof that the humans were related to the forerunners, if the game or the books couldn't have hinted that to you already.



[Edited on 10/13/2006]

  • 10.13.2006 10:01 PM PDT

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