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Subject: Guilty spark knew Master Cheif b4 the events of halo 1
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Posted by: Kayasith
I havent read the posts above, but it's as simple as this, the rings have been activated before, not the masterchief, or some random marine, but a forerunner, when guilty spark said why would you hesitate to do what you already done? he is simply stateing that "your" kind has activated the rings before, why would you hesitate a second time? Furthering the proof that the humans were related to the forerunners, if the game or the books couldn't have hinted that to you already.


I don't think 343GS "sees" in the same sense we do. He classifies. I think reclaimer is the term given to somebody who can put the index into the control room's main computer. I think that the Forrunner who did this last time asked 343GS if he would do it. 343 GS doesn't understand the difference between forrunners and humans, which is probably an indication that they are similar.




i agree with both of these people one hundred percent

  • 10.14.2006 12:36 PM PDT
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Another thought is that apparently there are some references to the numbers 343 within the Cortana letters.

So Guilty Spark may have explained everything to humans already. Though the humans he explained everything to kept it all a secret. So Guilty Spark is suprised that the Master Chief doesn't know what he has already told other humans.

If you go here you can see many references to the number 343 within the Cortana letters. http://halosm.bungie.org/story/343.html

It is likely that the last reclaimer was human. As humans are seen as reclaimers today it is logical to assume they were seen as reclaimers in the past.

It also might help explain why Guilty spark seems to recognise the Master Chief. Perhaps Guilty Spark has been communicating with ONI and has seen Spartans before. Possibly that is why Guilty Spark is so suprised that the Master Chief seems to know so little about Halo.

Some other theories even speculate that some top secret military forces were training Spartans on Halo long before the Pillar of Autumn went there. Some speculate that this is the real way that Sgt Johnson survived Halo's destruction. He may have been picked up by his top secret buddies.

Humans may have been spared due to the location of the Ark. maybe the Ark shielded the entire planet. Interesting enough there was an ice age approximately 100.000 years ago. Possibly this was due to the sheilding (at least in the Halo universe anyway).

Anyway I think my ideas may warrant more discussion as they certianly raise a few interesting points.

  • 10.15.2006 4:10 AM PDT
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I like it. Some good and new ideas. I haven't read all the halo novels so I can't comment too much but the idea of johnson escaping with some buddies who knew about halo fits with the plot.

We've still got that
"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."

to think about.Guilty spark says in halo 2 that after exhausting all other options the forerunners activated the rings, not humans.
ARBETIER
And those who made the rings? What happened to the Forerunners?
343 GUILTY SPARK:
After exhausting every other strategic option, my creators activated the rings. They, and all additional sentient life in three radii of the galactic center, died ...as planned.

  • 10.15.2006 4:20 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: wolfnight
Posted by: SweetTRIX
you really should, there really well written. i would recommend them even to someone who is not a fan of the game.


Luckily I'm a fan of the game and I was looking on Amazon the other day and the books r going pretty cheap. I was wondering though. Is the book Halo; The Flood worth it as the story is the same as Halo CE. I wasn't sure.



the flood is definately worth it. it adds tremendous depth and detail to what happened on halo. you should just pick up the box set if they still have them.

  • 10.17.2006 10:33 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: V101
Another thought is that apparently there are some references to the numbers 343 within the Cortana letters.

So Guilty Spark may have explained everything to humans already. Though the humans he explained everything to kept it all a secret. So Guilty Spark is suprised that the Master Chief doesn't know what he has already told other humans.

If you go here you can see many references to the number 343 within the Cortana letters. http://halosm.bungie.org/story/343.html

It is likely that the last reclaimer was human. As humans are seen as reclaimers today it is logical to assume they were seen as reclaimers in the past.

It also might help explain why Guilty spark seems to recognise the Master Chief. Perhaps Guilty Spark has been communicating with ONI and has seen Spartans before. Possibly that is why Guilty Spark is so suprised that the Master Chief seems to know so little about Halo.


hmmm, interesting. i suppose it's possible that people, or even ONI have interacted with GS before but it seems too unlikely. even if it was something that ONI had been doing in secret they would not leave the ring completely devoid of human life to be claimed by whoever found it next. after reading "the flood" i'm lead to believe that GS had in fact interacted with a human, the marine which he was guiding to the library. however i think the reason that GS seems to have a situation of deja vu with MC has more to do with his armor and not the fact that he's human. GS makes a direct reference to his armor in the book, which could lead one to assume that the forerunners had similar if not identical technology. and considering the MJOLNIR armor origin that is understandable.

Some other theories even speculate that some top secret military forces were training Spartans on Halo long before the Pillar of Autumn went there. Some speculate that this is the real way that Sgt Johnson survived Halo's destruction. He may have been picked up by his top secret buddies.

have you read "First Strike"? they explain how sarge made if off halo. not to say it's impossible that people have been there before.

Humans may have been spared due to the location of the Ark. maybe the Ark shielded the entire planet. Interesting enough there was an ice age approximately 100.000 years ago. Possibly this was due to the sheilding (at least in the Halo universe anyway).

an interesting thought, i guess we'll have to wait and see.

Anyway I think my ideas may warrant more discussion as they certianly raise a few interesting points.

[Edited on 10/17/2006]

  • 10.17.2006 11:57 AM PDT

From what I learned from my friend, the last Reclaimer that activated Installation 04 asked 343 Guilty Spark whether if it was his decision would he do it. Guilty Spark couldn't answer the question at the time, hence why he told Master Chief, "The last time you asked me, if it were my decision, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed." Also, the last Reclaimer looked somewhat like Master Chief. (by that I mean the armor)

  • 10.18.2006 1:08 PM PDT

Tucker: Oh, right. Man.. I was totally thinking of something else.

  • 10.18.2006 1:10 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Renegade01
Tucker: Oh, right. Man.. I was totally thinking of something else.


HAHAHAHA, classic. . .

  • 10.18.2006 3:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Renegade01
From what I learned from my friend, the last Reclaimer that activated Installation 04 asked 343 Guilty Spark whether if it was his decision would he do it. Guilty Spark couldn't answer the question at the time, hence why he told Master Chief, "The last time you asked me, if it were my decision, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed." Also, the last Reclaimer looked somewhat like Master Chief. (by that I mean the armor)


So far we've got armoured forerunner activates the ring, covenant copy forerunner technology, humans copy covenant armour but change the boy shape and so MC ends up looking like a forerunner.

So humans must look alot like forerunners. Decendants?

How much would it suck if the answer turned out to be time travel.

  • 10.19.2006 3:38 PM PDT

I think it's possible that the 'Reclaimers' and 'Forruners' were two different people. I made this assumption when near at the end of Halo 2 343 says 'my creators' after mentioning the forruners. 343 may be a piece of Reclaimer technology, not forruner. He also says "this facility was built specifically for studying and containing the flood, their survival as a species depended upon it. I am greatful to see some of them survived to reproduce." I think here he's not talking about the flood, but the 'reclaimers'. But in this case he's admiting you're a decendent of them, and not one he knew in particular. So I think by "last time you asked me" refers to his people in general, and not YOU, the chief. That or he is indeed insane.

  • 10.19.2006 9:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: M41 LAAG
I think it's possible that the 'Reclaimers' and 'Forruners' were two different people. I made this assumption when near at the end of Halo 2 343 says 'my creators' after mentioning the forruners. 343 may be a piece of Reclaimer technology, not forruner. He also says "this facility was built specifically for studying and containing the flood, their survival as a species depended upon it. I am greatful to see some of them survived to reproduce." I think here he's not talking about the flood, but the 'reclaimers'. But in this case he's admiting you're a decendent of them, and not one he knew in particular. So I think by "last time you asked me" refers to his people in general, and not YOU, the chief. That or he is indeed insane.


At first glance it looks like guilty spark is just talking about the flood but I suppose it could be reclaimers he is talking about. It would fit.

About those who activated the rings.
ARBITER:
And those who made the rings? What happened to the Forerunners?
343 GUILTY SPARK:
After exhausting every other strategic option, my creators activated the rings. They, and all additional sentient life in three radii of the galactic center, died ...as planned.

  • 10.20.2006 3:00 AM PDT
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Is it me or does guilty spark seemed to have gone a bit strange over those lonely years in space, for an advanced ai he sure can be annoying and fun at the same time. But hey I suppose he survived better than 2401 penitent tangent.


  • 10.20.2006 3:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: wolfnight
Is it me or does guilty spark seemed to have gone a bit strange over those lonely years in space, for an advanced ai he sure can be annoying and fun at the same time. But hey I suppose he survived better than 2401 penitent tangent.




Yes Guilty Spark seems to show signs of going a bit mad. Guilty Spark is a very smart AI designed to follow procedure to the letter. However over time something seems to have happened to the little light bulb to turn him into a bit of an eccentric.

Maybe Guilty Spark is showing signs of going rogue.

as for 2401 penitent tangent. We don't very much about that Monitor yet. My guess is that the Flood captured it during a battle of some sort and the Gravemind now uses 2401 Penitent Tangent to control the Delta Halo.

Otherwise 2401 Penitent Tangent would likely have sought to activate Halo as soon as the threat of the Flood leaving Halo became apparent.

Hmmm interesting...

  • 10.20.2006 9:30 PM PDT
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Hmmm I was just checking out some Guilty Spark quotes and I cam across this rather pecular quote.

When you are playing Halo CE and are going through the library Guilty Spark says this

343 GUILTY SPARK:

This installation's research facilities are most impressive! Perhaps we'll have time to see them later.

This seems really odd

Guilty Spark is assisting the Master Chief to obtain the index and activate Halo. Guilty Spark knows that doing this will kill all sentiant life that could sustain the Flood. This will likely kill the Master Chief. Yet Guilty Spark makes reference to later on assumingly after their current task. So will the Master Chief/reclaimer survive the Halo activation?

Possibly the Ark is simply a central control system as a sort of back up and all reclaimers will survive. Hmmm food for thought.

  • 10.20.2006 9:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: wolfnight
"(pauses) More or less. Technically, this installation's pulse has a maximum effective radius of twenty-five thousand light years. But, once the others follow suit, this galaxy will be quite devoid of life, or at least any life with sufficient biomass to sustain the flood. (pause) But you already knew that. I mean, how couldn't you?"
He (Chief) is a Reclaimer, obviously a Forerunner decendent or part of a race that interacted with the Forerunner in the past."Why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?"He alrready activated Halo, Cortana pulled out the Index when it was warming up to fire (Like how Miranda did)"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."One phrase for you: "Off-screen conversation.""You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating. "So, humans = Forerunner, because he refers to it as our and not "this" or "their".

I don't get how that one would add to your theory though...

  • 10.20.2006 10:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
[quote]Posted by: wolfnight
"You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating. "

So, humans = Forerunner, because he refers to it as our and not "this" or "their".

I don't get how that one would add to your theory though...


Not necessarily...

Maybe Guilty Spark was simply referring to himself as our lost time. I have noticed also that he says

343 GUILTY SPARK:

Why do you continue to fight us, Reclaimer? You cannot win! Give us the construct, and I will endeavour to make your death relatively painless and -



Guilty Spark is likely simply referring to a record of lost time. Why else would GS be saying "Human history is it?" as if GS is asking if that is what it is. GS would simply say something like "Fascinating" if it was the rest of a history GS already knew.

If you actually keep the words in context and understand what is going on you can understand exatly what is happening. I will explain ...

Here is the dialogue from the key moment of the level known as "The Maw"



CORTANA:

He's in my data arrays, a local tap!

(Cut to 343 GS)

343 GUILTY SPARK:

You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating.

(343 GS flutters around Engineering, as Sentinels join him, and scans another console)

343 GUILTY SPARK:

Oh how I will enjoy every moment of its categorization! And to think that you would destroy this installation. As well as this record. I am shocked. Almost too shocked for words.

(Cut to the bridge. A tone sounds over the ship's speakers)

CORTANA (with a note of awe in her voice):

He stopped the self-destruct sequence. . . .

(The Chief surveys the bridge carefully with his AR, never missing a beat)

343 GUILTY SPARK:

Why do you continue to fight us, Reclaimer? You cannot win! Give us the construct, and I will endeavour to make your death relatively painless and -



You need to understand a few other things.

Firstly Guilty Spark was referring to itself as I up untilt he point that GS interacted with the terminal on the Pillar of Autumn.

Several references throughout this level indicate that Guilty Spark has found an on board ship AI. Possibly Guilty Spark is in control of this AI and is either using it or planning to use it to control the ship (POA).

So Guilty Spark now refers to itself as us because GS is now composed of two AI constructs being GS and the on board ship AI GS found.

The on board ship AI is likely to be Beowolf. Beowolf was installed on the Pillar of Autum though Cortana seemed to be the Pillar of Autum's AI Beuwolf was still there.

Guilty Spark probably enjoyed working with Beuwolf as Beuwolf is also a strict protocol driven AI without any real emotions and/or unpredictability. As apposed to Cortana who is quite off the wall.

Anyway the main point here is that Guilty Spark was referring to itself as "us" when it said the quote "You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating. "

The exact reason why Guilty Spark was referring to itself as "us" is unknown but it is likely that Guilty Spark found something on the Pillar of Autum as it was not until GS was interacting with the Pillar of Autum's computer system that it referred to itself as "us".

Up until this time Guilty Spark referred to itself as "I". You can see this when you look at some dialogue from the level "Two Betrayals"



343 GUILTY SPARK:

A construct?! In the core?! That is absolutely unacceptable!

CORTANA:

Sod off!

343 GUILTY SPARK:

What impertinence! I shall purge you at once!

CORTANA:

You sure that's a good idea?

(cortana teleports the index away.)

343 GUILTY SPARK:

How, how... How dare you! I'll-


and the infamous quote



343 GUILTY SPARK:

Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed.



and




343 GUILTY SPARK:

If you are unwilling to help, I will simply find another. Still, I must have the index. Give your construct to me, or I will be forced to take her from you.



Guilty Spark is clearly referring to itself as singular "I" prior to reaching the Pillar of Autum then suddenly after interacting with a computer terminal on board the Pillar of Autum Guilty Spark refers to itself as "us".

The use of the word us may actually have nothing to do with Forerunners. Guilty Spark is simply excited to find some record of lost time being the time it has been couped up on Halo.




  • 10.20.2006 11:25 PM PDT

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As for the "Why did he say the human history part", "Human" is a word in his vocabulary, likely one from the Forerunner vocab as well.

Now, when you shoot him a lot in the Library, he says "Stop being so human", I believe "Human" is a word like "Failure" or "Retard" in our vocab today.

You know, how I would say "Stop shooting me, failure" or "Stop being a retard" to someone...I believe that we "remembered" this derrogatory term and named ourselves "human" because we let the Galaxy down, just like how we named the Monitors after being Guilty and Penitent.

[Edited on 10/21/2006]

  • 10.21.2006 10:21 AM PDT

___.............._______/```````````````:::--...
|.==,-.~;. ____:._______ __’__’__’_ _ _\=
|................--:---:--:--‘---:,, ,,, ,,, ,,,:---: /=
`-.,.__._._,,...---:::"
Truth and Reconciliation , Halo Infinities , Council of the Rising

um, just in case u guys didn't know, the only logical answer is that the forerunners were human. they activated the ring, and 343 guilty spark sees humans, he believes they are reclaimers... cause they activated the ring already

  • 10.21.2006 2:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: V101
Hmmm I was just checking out some Guilty Spark quotes and I cam across this rather pecular quote.

When you are playing Halo CE and are going through the library Guilty Spark says this

343 GUILTY SPARK:

This installation's research facilities are most impressive! Perhaps we'll have time to see them later.

This seems really odd

Guilty Spark is assisting the Master Chief to obtain the index and activate Halo. Guilty Spark knows that doing this will kill all sentiant life that could sustain the Flood. This will likely kill the Master Chief. Yet Guilty Spark makes reference to later on assumingly after their current task. So will the Master Chief/reclaimer survive the Halo activation?

Possibly the Ark is simply a central control system as a sort of back up and all reclaimers will survive. Hmmm food for thought.


We know the alpha halo has a research facility within the gas giant. We go there during halo 2.

As for this idea of later there could be a few explenations.
1) Maybe there is some sort of safe zone on each of the halo's where the forerunners or humans could hide in safety. This could explain why gravemind survived.
2) Maybe there is some way for master cheif to have travelled to the ark before the halo went off, assuming the ark is safe.
3) The mojnor armour would protect us
3) Guilty spark is getting a bit excentic

[Edited on 10/22/2006]

  • 10.22.2006 4:22 AM PDT

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When did we go to the research facility over Delta? The only one I remember was over Alpha, the one we "cut the string" to...

  • 10.22.2006 10:28 AM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


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"I know you, your past, your future" -Cortana/Gravemind Halo 3 Trailer

It seems this has happenned at least once before. And though death seemed to be a barrier, that barrier has been passed.

  • 10.22.2006 10:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
When did we go to the research facility over Delta? The only one I remember was over Alpha, the one we "cut the string" to...


OK. Thanks 4 that? Slight error on my part, but u got the right idea.

Does anyone know if delta halo even has a research facility. I mean is it just alpha halo or a feature among all the halos?

  • 10.22.2006 2:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Silentone2
"I know you, your past, your future" -Cortana/Gravemind Halo 3 Trailer

It seems this has happenned at least once before. And though death seemed to be a barrier, that barrier has been passed.


True the activation of the halo's poses the question, how did sentient life survive.
Bring forth the ark and two of a kind
or I suppose single cell organisms and evolution.

  • 10.22.2006 2:28 PM PDT

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has anyone considered that the forruners created the spartens orginily because they are cyborgs as stats covenet and most other evednc found in both games so they appered human to 343GS and some how humans obtained parts of the forruners reaserch that lead them to create the spartens?

  • 10.22.2006 4:41 PM PDT

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