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This topic has moved here: Subject: Old speculation given new fire
  • Subject: Old speculation given new fire
Subject: Old speculation given new fire
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Back on April 21st I posted some speculation on the board about the possibility of really big (tall) aliens in Halo 2. Below is an excerpt of some of the evidence I found from the books:

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p. 60 - In reference to the Covenant ship Ascendant Justice

"The architecture of the Covenant fighter bay was similar to the interior of the other Covenant ship the Chief had recently been inside, the Truth and Reconciliation. Low indirect lights illuminated the dark purple walls. The alien metal appeared to be stenciled with odd, faintly luminescent geometric patterns that overlapped each other. The ceiling was vaulted and unnecessarily high, maybe ten meters. In contrast to a human ship, it was a waste of space."

Now, in comparison, p. 138 - Underground trail beneath CASTLE Base

"Fred entered next, sliding through the vent duct, It twisted and turned and finally dumped him into a long tunnel of rougly hewn granite. The ceiling was ten meters high and -- judging from the three-meter-wide tire tracks in the dust -- big enough for heavy equipment to have rolled through."

Interesting how both Covenant ships and this underground passageway are both 10 meters high. Waste of space? Or maybe the creators are actually that tall? What kind of alien race would be 10 meters tall?

Also, a few pages later on p. 142 - In regards to the new passageway Fred opened up

"This new corridor was twenty meters high -- large enough for a titan to stride down its length."

Tell me thats not a tease. Something big, and by big I mean tall, is headed our way in Halo 2.
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Recently I found some evidence from other sources that proves my theory.

Quoting from the GameInformer article:

"Word is there may be even more enemies, including a huge beast capable of flipping over a warthog! Whether this makes it into the final version or not remains to be seen, but it would certainly be pretty sweet."

Also, from Frankie's most recent Update at HBO (under Bubsy the Butkus):

"Let’s see, since we spoke last I’ve finished up a large, intimidating alien..."

Granted these two juicy tidbits may or may not indicate something ten meters tall. MC can flip over a warthog easily enough and Brutes are "large, intimidating aliens." Yet at the same time Bungie seems to be putting emphasis on the enormous size of this creature as if its bigger than anything we've yet seen.

Thoughts?

  • 05.23.2004 10:55 AM PDT
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Nice find, however, castle base was made by the humans so the ceiling being high has nothing to do with tall aliens.

Edit: didn't read other half of your post.

[Edited on 5/23/2004 11:12:43 AM]

  • 05.23.2004 11:07 AM PDT
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Although CASTLE base itself was made by humans, they built it inside a titanium mine that had been there previous to Reach's colonization. The extreme height of the ceiling is only mentioned in the low, low parts of the base. Parts that almost everyone didnt even know existed, not even Dr. Halsey.

Also, judging by the height of Brutes from the E3 2003 demo, they are about as tall as MC. No where near 10 meters.

EDIT: Or 20 meters, in reference to the caves below CASTLE.

[Edited on 5/23/2004 11:12:52 AM]

  • 05.23.2004 11:11 AM PDT

Great things for us to mull over/chew on (like "ridin' the pickle!").
Thanks, KiGlow.

  • 05.23.2004 11:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: KiGlow
Although CASTLE base itself was made by humans, they built it inside a titanium mine that had been there previous to Reach's colonization.


First off.

Last I remember the titanium mines were made by humans....it was the deeper areas that we had ran across that we never bothered going down.

Secondly

Ever been throughout an entire Covenant ship? Those ceilings (not including the launch bays) barely fit a Hunter at full height. Which is no where near 10 meters tall. So unless those big aliens just stay inside the launch bays, that really is not a waste of space. If anything it seems just fine.

  • 05.23.2004 11:55 AM PDT
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Posted by Hikaru 119
Ever been throughout an entire Covenant ship? Those ceilings (not including the launch bays) barely fit a Hunter at full height. Which is no where near 10 meters tall. So unless those big aliens just stay inside the launch bays, that really is not a waste of space. If anything it seems just fine.


True. However, there WERE no large aliens on Halo or even in Halo: TF. Quite simply, the ships sent to Halo were not large enough to cater to these aliens. However, the huge rooms that allow banshees to fly around in, rooms like those found on the Unyielding Hierophant where MC first meets a Brute, are more than tall enough to cater to 10 meter high (or something a few feet shorter) alien.

EDIT: Spelling ;)

[Edited on 5/24/2004 5:51:14 AM]

  • 05.24.2004 5:50 AM PDT
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It sounds almost like (since they weren't on the Halo ships) they would be a commander species. Wait! Read a little more... Think, if they were so big that they could easily flip a Warthog, and were somewhere downward of 20 meters (about 60 ft.), then why weren't they sent to defend Halo? The Covenant supposidly places an extremely high value on Forerunner technology, so why not have this enormous caste guard it? The only answer (if it even exists) would be if it was a command species (or had some religious significance, which I'm not going into). In Halo, you never saw a prophet. Why? They are a command species. But you did see Grunts, Jackals, Elites, and Hunters. Why? They are militant species, instruments of the Prophets. We've already seen a new caste (and species), that of Brutes. (I'm pretty sure it's new, don't flame me, I'm only on Assault on the Control Room!).

This would also imply (or strengthen) the speculation that there are enormously larger ships than the ones dispatched to Halo. However, when you start to think about that, you ask yourself, "Why weren't these enormous ships with a gargantuan species sent to defend Halo?" or better yet, "Why weren't they already there guarding it?". The only answer again is that they must be a command species. Sure, you can say they weren't able to get there in time, but in Halo (game) and First Strike (when they commandeer the Ascendant Justice ) Cortana tells you that Covenant understanding and practical use of slipspace far exceeds that of human knowledge. So they could have gotton there.

So now (if they exist) we have a mental picture of them. An enormous species that must have extremely signifcant intelligence with their own class of ship that stay to themselves near the Covanent homeworld. Let's look through each of these-

Enormous Species- As provided earlier, they aren't seen on the Truth and Reconciliation or any other ships near Halo, meaning they are taller than normal corridors (~5 meters) but no taller than the corridors below the Human titanium mines on Reach (~20 meters). So I'm estimating an average height of 15.3 meters (I set up a proportion of average ceiling height and human height against the 20 meter maximum ceiling height of this new species and came up with 15.3 meters, which gives them some head room).

Height- 5 - 20 meters, but I estimate ~15.3 meters

Extremely Significant Intelligence- If humans had a species of animal ~15.3 meters tall, completely loyal, able to overturn enemy vehicles, able to wield weapons, and somewhat resistant to projectile fire, would we use it? You bet we would (to all you animals rights people, what are you doing here?).They must have intelligence somewhere between that of Elites and Prophets. They must be more intelligent than Elites, because then this new species would be under the command of the Elites. They must be less intelligent than Prophets, or else they would control the Covenant species (I'll discuss the exception to this at the bottom of this).

Their Own Class of Ship- Well, I thought this was pretty obvious. Since they weren't on the Truth and Reconciliation and wouldn't be able to fit into the Ascendant Justice they must have their own class of ship. The only portion of a Covenant starship (that we've heard of so far) that would be able to house this new species would be the docking bay, whose enormous size can be explained away as manouevoring room for Banshees. So in order for this new species to exist, they must have their own class of starship that would need to be enormous to house even a skeleton crew.

Stay to Themselves Near the Covenant Homeworld- Well, again, I thought this was pretty obvious. Since we haven't seen any of them yet, they must stay near the Covenant homeworld. Common sense tells us that if they were dispatched to guard or command anything, it would be Covenant technology, most likely close to the Covenant homeworld, since an enormous starship would be resource intensive and costly to move. And we don't know where Halo is relative to the Covenant homeworld. The only reasonable answer you can make based on current knowledge of the Covenant Caste System and Homeworld Location is that they must stay near the Covenant homeworld. There is one exception to this however... The Covenant value their own self-existance somewhat more than the Forerunner artifacts, and thus leaving the species on their homeworld to defend against the improbable but possible attack from Earth on it. This would make a case for them being a militant species and us not hearing about them in Halo. However, it would also mean that the Covenant are being somewhat disobidient to their "gods". I find this highly unlikely.

I would give this new species a low probability of existence. From what I've inferred of them, they would need extremely special circumstances to exist, one of which could lead to disobidience of their "gods".

As I promised earlier, here is a list of the things that would solve some of the problems mentioned above-
* They hold religious significance.
* They don't exist.

I agree that there have been hints at a new species, but I still find it highly unlikely, but of course, I don't have the plot for Halo 2 in my hands, so I guess you can't take anything here as concrete (Although it would be cool if Jason Jones got all mad at me because I figured out the plot of Halo 2).

Oh well, thanks for reading.

  • 05.24.2004 6:42 AM PDT