Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: A Few Not-so-frequently Asked Questions about H2V
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Posted by: Chewy Gumball
Nothing about single player. Its not a sure thing, which is why you can't say that. You can say it probably will, or that every indication points to it having it, but don't say it does without a quote saying there is singleplayer support.


I won't eat my words because I haven't said anything that would be eatable.

It is a fan site. Its not "home" to 2 employees, they just visit there. Just like they visit any other site on the web. No one besides nitrous and atty would have any credibility about things h2v, and I highly doubt they would disclose any information about it that isn't already known, or wouldn't be appearing soon at bungie.net.

  • 11.03.2006 4:14 PM PDT
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You just don't get it, do you? The tools will be the same as they were before, but upgraded and with more options. Guess what type of files map files are? .map. Guess what type of file the single player campaign levels are listed as? .map. It's not rocket scientry.

  • 11.03.2006 4:45 PM PDT
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Wow... You have apparently missed the entire point of my argument, even though I stated it clearly 2 or 3 times.

  • 11.03.2006 5:00 PM PDT
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I believe what chewy is going for is that bungie has disabled the ability to create single player maps.

  • 11.03.2006 5:23 PM PDT
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No, I'm saying its a possibility, and that disregarding that possibility because you don't want it to happen is foolish and stupid.

  • 11.03.2006 5:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Chewy Gumball
Wow... You have apparently missed the entire point of my argument, even though I stated it clearly 2 or 3 times.

If there's anyone who has missed the point two or three times, it is you and you ignoramus comments.

Posted by: Chewy Gumball[/b]
No, I'm saying its a possibility, and that disregarding that possibility because you don't want it to happen is foolish and stupid.

Are you End Bringer in disguise? What the **** do you not understand about the .map concept? Go mod an Xbox near you to find out that Halo 2 campaign levels are also .map files!

"GASP! TEH OMGZ!!!1!!!11!! TIZ RAWKET SIGHENCE! EVEN DOUGH BUNJEE IZ UPDAYTING HEK LIEK IT WAZ B4 MUSTT MEN DAT DEY WIL NAWT ENKLUD OWLD FEECHURS!!!!1!111!!!one!11!!"

Your logic fails beyond words.

  • 11.03.2006 7:36 PM PDT
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... I am practical. If it turns out that singleplayer isn't supported, you will look silly, stupid, or both. Theres a difference between being hopeful but realistic (me) and seeing what you want to see (you). Bungie has specifically stated more than once these tools will allow for multiplayer content to be created. That implies the tools won't create singleplayer content, but it doesn't rule out the possibility. It would be prudent to say its a possibility, but there is a chance it won't happen.

The HEK cannot create single player map files correctly. They don't work right. CMT used hacked tools and files, which are publicly available, but only to knowledgeable people. Without Kornman there would be no CMT mod.

There are 3 kinds of maps, multiplayer, singleplayer, and UI. The files are still .map files but there are differences between a SP, MP and UI map file.

I probably know alot more about map making than you, but even if I don't, you are still wrong to assume singleplayer creation will be available just because of an extension and similar tools. Extensions mean nothing.

[Edited on 11/3/2006]

  • 11.03.2006 8:17 PM PDT
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Maw

Posted by: Chewy Gumball
I am practical. If it turns out that singleplayer isn't supported, you will look silly, stupid, or both. Theres a difference between being hopeful but realistic (me) and seeing what you want to see (you).

... The HEK cannot create single player map files correctly. They don't work right. CMT used hacked tools and files, which are publicly available, but only to knowledgeable people. Without Kornman there would be no CMT mod.

There are 3 kinds of maps, multiplayer, singleplayer, and UI. The files are still .map files but there are differences between a SP, MP and UI map file.

I probably know alot more about map making than you, but even if I don't, you are still wrong.


Chewy is smart. Chewy knows what he talks about. Methinks Chewy right.

  • 11.03.2006 8:19 PM PDT
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You forgot Bitmaps.map and Sounds.map.

  • 11.03.2006 8:31 PM PDT
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I think those were just storehouses so map files would be smaller. All common bitmaps/sounds would be stored in there so individual map files would be smaller. Probably a memory saver for the xbox more than anything. If you compare the cmt map files to halo's sp map files they are huge. Vanilla halo's bitmap.map file is 3 times as large though.

I'm pretty sure you can't create those kinds of files with the HEK, but they aren't needed since a map file has everything it needs in it anyway when you compile with tool.

  • 11.03.2006 8:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Chewy Gumball
... I am practical. If it turns out that singleplayer isn't supported, you will look silly, stupid, or both. Theres a difference between being hopeful but realistic (me) and seeing what you want to see (you). Bungie has specifically stated more than once these tools will allow for multiplayer content to be created. That implies the tools won't create singleplayer content, but it doesn't rule out the possibility. It would be prudent to say its a possibility, but there is a chance it won't happen.

Oh don't give me this "you're just hopeful" bull. Go ahead, say the textures aren't going to be high quality, simply because Bungie "never stated it." :rolls eyes: It is not prudent to say there will be new maps for H2V, simply because new maps came with HPC, as it would not be prudent to say we won't be able to edit single player content, simply because we can do so with HEK.

Posted by: Chewy
The HEK cannot create single player map files correctly. They don't work right. CMT used hacked tools and files, which are publicly available, but only to knowledgeable people. Without Kornman there would be no CMT mod.

So you honestly think none of the HEK tools had a huge effect on the mod? No, of course not Chewy, because we tend to look past the obvious more then enough around here, it seems. Converting the single player maps to multiplayer maps is not brain surgery, nor does it take a crack team of people to do it and figure it out. If you honestly think that most of the work wasn't done in Sapien, Tool, and Guerilla, then you need a reality check.

Posted by: Chewy
There are 3 kinds of maps, multiplayer, singleplayer, and UI. The files are still .map files but there are differences between a SP, MP and UI map file.

I probably know alot more about map making than you, but even if I don't, you are still wrong to assume singleplayer creation will be available just because of an extension and similar tools. Extensions mean nothing.

Let me guess, "because you've been here longer?" I've followed Halo PC since the day it came out, so please, don't patronize me like as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Also, extensions means everything. Prometheus will support H2V; but, what, we're not going to include it simply because it's not released by Bungie? And, what, we're just going to also generally assume that we will have no tools to mod the crap out of campaign maps? But, ah, nothing is official until Bungie says so! Nope, because of that, this rules out the educated assumptions of what they might do, even after looking at what they've done in the past! [/sarcasm]

  • 11.03.2006 9:58 PM PDT
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[rant]Is it me or does half of my posts get unnoticed? SERIOUSLY! WTF? I post something and everyone ignores it. Just look at my post above. Absolutely nothing is said about it, nothing.

OH! But most everyone else is noticed... If I created a topic right now about something, I can almost guarentee that it will get less than 10 posts, and 2/3 of those posts will be me.

Now heres a question, what if I up and left, from ALL of my forums *which is 3*? I bet that absolutely no one will notice. I occassionally post topics about my map and nothing is said, but when someone posts a picture, the whole Maw replies.



Or I can become a ninja and do a 7 day ban on 2 people here...[/rant]

  • 11.03.2006 10:06 PM PDT
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And running around practically screaming "Pay attention to me!" is possibly one of the reasons why no one pays attention to you.

Wait, does that make sense to anyone else? It did in my brain, but Aga and Chewy are totally harshing my mellow man.

  • 11.03.2006 10:16 PM PDT
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and when did i exactly run around saying "pay attention to me"? I'm just pointing out the fact that I input something and it gets totally ignored, but when someone blabers some incoherent message people pay attension.

  • 11.03.2006 10:59 PM PDT
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Bad grammar attracts attention, as do one-line posts.

  • 11.04.2006 2:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
Oh don't give me this "you're just hopeful" bull. Go ahead, say the textures aren't going to be high quality, simply because Bungie "never stated it." :rolls eyes: It is not prudent to say there will be new maps for H2V, simply because new maps came with HPC, as it would not be prudent to say we won't be able to edit single player content, simply because we can do so with HEK.


Bungie has stated some textures will be higher quality. Bungie has stated there will be new maps. You can't create single player content with the HEK. You need a file that came with one of the kornman editors. Maybe you need to sit back and re read what I have said.

Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
So you honestly think none of the HEK tools had a huge effect on the mod? No, of course not Chewy, because we tend to look past the obvious more then enough around here, it seems. Converting the single player maps to multiplayer maps is not brain surgery, nor does it take a crack team of people to do it and figure it out. If you honestly think that most of the work wasn't done in Sapien, Tool, and Guerilla, then you need a reality check.


I do believe I said there wouldn't be a mod without kornman's hacked tools, not that it was done entirely with them. I would have used a hobo/kornman/tool to make them cause they are better than sapien/guerrilla.

Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
Let me guess, "because you've been here longer?" I've followed Halo PC since the day it came out, so please, don't patronize me like as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Also, extensions means everything. Prometheus will support H2V; but, what, we're not going to include it simply because it's not released by Bungie? And, what, we're just going to also generally assume that we will have no tools to mod the crap out of campaign maps? But, ah, nothing is official until Bungie says so! Nope, because of that, this rules out the educated assumptions of what they might do, even after looking at what they've done in the past! [/sarcasm]


The whole argument is that you can't state your assumptions as fact, as you have done. I didn't say I was here longer, I said I probably know more than you about map making. Extensions don't matter. I could make a file with an extension .map and prom wouldn't be able to read it. A program relies on how the file's content is structured, not what the extension is. If I asked Prom to open a .txt file, but it was really a map file I changed the extension on, it would open.

Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
But, ah, nothing is official until Bungie says so!


OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG! YOU GET IT, oh wait, that was sarcasm...

  • 11.04.2006 8:34 AM PDT
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As far as I'm concerned, I care not what you have to say anymore. There's plenty of people to argue around in circles with, and it's never fun doing so. Until then you can go on preaching only what Bungie has given you, while I make educated guesses as to what they might do and then label it as a guess as I've always done, like in my FAQ.

  • 11.04.2006 9:36 AM PDT

Gaming Systems:
Intel Core i7 720QM (4 cores, 8 threads)
4Gb DDR3-1333mhz
1Gb AMD Radeon HD 4650
Windows 7 64bit

Xbox 360 w/ 20Gb HDD (2008 edition) & XBL Gold.

Can someone give me a brief synopsis of what on earth's going on here? I've read and understood most of it, but in order to make a coherant reply, i need to know:

Why are you lot arguing about .map files?

Who is saying that the Textures will not be improved?

  • 11.04.2006 10:53 AM PDT
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they were arguing if a person could create a single player map for h2v

  • 11.04.2006 11:01 AM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny.

Posted by: dalmedya
This is entertaining. *gets popcorn and deckchair*

Wow, for the last few weeks I've been gone, and this place is damn entertaining! I bet I've missed a crapload of things! Pass me the soda, cause this thread's sure interesting!

  • 11.04.2006 11:02 AM PDT
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why soda? why not beer!

only if we could have some input by an actual employee who is working on the project...

  • 11.04.2006 11:25 AM PDT
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So why didn't Recon close this thread when he closed that 64-bit processor thread? It's foolish to assume that you'll be able to edit single player maps with the H2V modding tools (for lack of a better name) It's also foolish to assume that you cannot edit single player maps. The -blam!-ing game isn't even out yet. So unless Bungie specifically releases the information on the modding tools, no amount of petty bickering is going to shed light on the issue.

To assume is to make an Ass of U and Me.

  • 11.04.2006 12:43 PM PDT
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Why is it everyone is afraid of debating on a forum? Where does it say in Bungie.net's forum rules that "there will be NO arguing or debating on things that have yet to come out yet!" Seriously, it's like the majority of you have a phobia of arguing or debating. Toughen up people; if you expect conflict to not happen on a forum then God only knows what you'd expect in real life.

Also, the assumption analogy is horrible and is usually used by people on the recieving end of assumptions, so why are you using it Obi Wan? So I supposedly make an ass out of myself when I write the guesses of what might come to Halo 2 Vista?

Honestly, if you can't take the heat, then stay out of the sauna.

  • 11.04.2006 1:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
1. HEK could already do that in Halo 1 PC, so yes.


You did not label this as a guess, you stated it as fact. My arguments have all been that you can't do this. I don't know why you are arguing if you agree with me.

  • 11.04.2006 1:26 PM PDT
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Oh please, you're still acting like you can't change anything without some user-created tools. I can change every detail there is with single player campaign in Halo 1 PC, down to bitmaps, shaders, tags, and everything of that sort. Also, has Chewy checked the HEK tutorial lately?

Under Multiplayer Level Design: General Overview:Multiplayer Level Limitations
The multiplayer game and levels do not have the ability to run the complicated scripting systems that are available in the single player game and levels. These systems are simply not included in the current network architecture that Halo uses for multiplayer.

Now follow along my friend, because this is where you have to put your thinking cap on. Yes, right there in plain sight, the HEK tutorial states that for MULTIPLAYER MAPS it is virtually impossible to include scripts or anything of the sort as the netcode does not allow it. But let's take a closer look, shall we? Throughout the HEK tutorial are options in the tools dealing with single player creation. As a matter of fact, HEK mentions these tools as being "unimportant, as they have no use for multiplayer map creation." But here's the thing Chewy; HEK itself are the tools Bungie used to created the game. Why else would tools dealing with single player maps only be there?

And no, this is no assumption at all; compiling a multiplayer map with scripts and such and fooling the game into believing it's a single player map can and is done. Thanks to a user-created tool that allows such a conversion, those options built in HEK are now worth-while.

Now let's sit here and contemplate for a while, Chewy; how much are you willing to bet Bungie will screw up as much as they did with Halo 1 PC and put out an unfinished product and still get away with it? Considering the amount and effort they are putting into it, I seriously doubt the excuse of "complications in the netcode" will be used once more. As said before, H2V will be supporting all old HEK tools with upgrades. Now what could these upgrades possibly be Chewy?

Despite this all being speculation, there is one thing that is factual; it has been stated in a Bungie update that the tools will be utilized for multiplayer map making. Wow, how convienent, that's exactly what the HEK tutorial says for Halo 1 PC. Amazing how some users have created single player maps with scripts and cutscenes, and others, like CMT, which has redone the single player campaign, all do to a simple user-made program that allowed the conversion of maps from multiplayer to single player. Do you honestly believe that, if by chance we aren't "allowed" to create single player maps, people won't make the same tools once again? That isn't speculation, my friend; some people would be willing to promise spending hours on end to getting an implemation system to do such a feat for H2V, and those people are the same people who put their money where their mouth was.

[Edited on 11/4/2006]

  • 11.04.2006 5:21 PM PDT

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