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This topic has moved here: Subject: Will PAL Halo2 have a proper PAL60 mode?
  • Subject: Will PAL Halo2 have a proper PAL60 mode?
Subject: Will PAL Halo2 have a proper PAL60 mode?
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OK, I looked back through the posts here but couldn't find anything. Apologies if this has already been discussed.

In the original Halo the PAL60 mode was flawed and skipped every few frames. Almost everyone ended up using the PAL50 mode which gave a framefrate of 25fps.

My simple question is: Will Halo2 have a properly implemented PAL60 mode so we will be playing at the same framerate as the NTSC version?

Thanks

  • 05.24.2004 2:10 AM PDT
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wouldnt have a clue

  • 05.24.2004 2:37 AM PDT
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You must tell me more when you have less time

  • 05.24.2004 2:39 AM PDT
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e-mail bungie and ask them no1 here could answer that ..... well there would be someone but u aint getting any responses so e-mail away

  • 05.24.2004 2:45 AM PDT
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I only posted it 40 mins ago and it's only 5.50am on the east coast (and even earlier in the west) so I think I'll give them a bit more time to answer but thanks for all your help. It's been invaluable

[Edited on 5/24/2004 2:50:42 AM]

  • 05.24.2004 2:47 AM PDT
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im pretty sure bungie will fix the problem they won't make the same mistake twice and as it is known halo was a rushed game halo 2 isn't

  • 05.24.2004 2:53 AM PDT

PAL60 is only used for awful PAL conversions so that it runs properly - it's a compatibility mode basically. Good PAL conversions have no need for this. And the PAL version is better anyway - you have a slower framerate, sure (only 5fps though, and your eyes probably wouldn't notice anyway), but a higher resolution and more lines.

  • 05.24.2004 4:56 AM PDT
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There are more lines in PAL , granted (625 instead of 525 right?), but the resolution (as in the number of pixels) isn't higher.

With PAL60 you get the 625 lines PLUS the extra frames per second so its my preferred format. You're wrong in saying it's simply a lazy work around for developers - if anything I would have thought it would be the most difficult as the framerate is the same but the Xbox has got to generate another 100 lines of graphics.

I want my proper PAL60 mode dammit!

[Edited on 5/24/2004 5:11:07 AM]

  • 05.24.2004 5:07 AM PDT

The resolution IS higher - I'd find my old copy of OXM and tell you the difference. But you just have to look at DOA3 and its big black lines at the bottom.
With PAL60 you get the 625 lines PLUS the extra frames per second so its my preferred format. You're wrong in saying it's simply a lazy work around for developers
Once again, another job for an old copy of OXM. But you don't get the benefit of extra lines - you've got to remember that it's designed for less lines, so the image is actually simply stretched. A proper PAL conversion won't do this.

However, in real terms there's no noticeable difference. It really just depends on what your TV's designed for.

[Edited on 5/24/2004 7:07:04 AM]

  • 05.24.2004 7:00 AM PDT
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I see, so the extra lines don't get used in PAL60.

I would still like a well implemented PAL60 version of Halo2 though as I always favour framerate over resolution. I always have my Xbox in PAL60 mode. I have read lots of descriptions of people's experience with NTSC Halo after they were used to playing the PAL 50Hz version. They said they noticed a difference.

  • 05.24.2004 7:33 AM PDT

You've got to remember that PAL60 isn't true NTSC anyway. I'll explain it.

No game has a PAL60 version. They have normal PAL versions. Poorly ported PAL versions, however (like DOA3), work better in PAL60 because they still think they're NTSC games. That's why you get the big black borders in normal mode, but none in PAL60. If a game has been properly converted then PAL60 is worse because the game now knows that it is PAL. As I said, PAL60 is for lazy (and mostly Japanese, it seems to be) developers.

And on noticing a difference - I'm playing the PC version at 30fps and notice no difference to the Xbox version (apart from worse graphics, of course, but that isn't to do with the frame rate).

  • 05.24.2004 10:06 AM PDT
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Hmm...not sure about your logic there but anyway I won't stop wanting a PAL60 mode that doesn't skip frames.

One thing you can't deny is that even the PAL50 version of Halo suffers from the fact that the cutscenes are jerky because they skip frames

  • 05.24.2004 11:06 AM PDT

It's the same on the PC version.
Anyway, like I said, NO GAME has a PAL60 mode - when you turn on PAL60, you are merely telling your Xbox to output an NTSC-like signal. The game doesn't know that you have PAL60 on, so it would be impossible to include a special mode for it.

  • 05.24.2004 11:07 AM PDT
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But a discussion on another forum threw this up:

"the 60hz mode was not the original NTSC version, but rather an "upsampled" version of the 50hz game. To make up for the difference in framerate, the game simply repeats certain video fields, resulting in a choppy framerate."

Look, I want to play Halo2 at 30fps. If Bungie do things properly I should be able to play halo2 with no skipping in PAL60 mode. Then I'll be a happy man.

Someone from Bungie put me out of my misery. Please.

[Edited on 5/24/2004 12:13:09 PM]

  • 05.24.2004 11:52 AM PDT

OK then, read my last post - games don't have a separate PAL60 mode as they don't know when you're in that mode. If it looks good in PAL60 then it means that they've -blam!-ed up the PAL conversion, and it'll look crap in normal PAL mode.
Now I, and I'm sure many others, would rather have a brilliant PAL conversion than one that looks good in PAL60 mode.

[Edited on 5/24/2004 2:13:06 PM]

  • 05.24.2004 2:12 PM PDT
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Well, in my experience, you're in the minority. A quick poll amongst my PAL Halo playing friends shows that they'd rather have a 60Hz refresh rate rather than a (slightly) prettier picture.

Are you from Bungie? If so, cool, pass this on to your colleagues would you?

  • 05.25.2004 3:16 AM PDT

So you're saying that Bungie should deliberately convert the game badly so that it will work in PAL60 mode?

  • 05.25.2004 6:08 AM PDT
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Not at all. I'd simply like a PAL60 version of the game that doesn't skip frames in both the cut scenes and the game itself. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I've spoken to and dicussed the subject with have their Xboxes set to PAL60 all the time. The only time they switch to PAL50 is to play Halo.

I'd like them to not cripple the PAL60 mode so I get the smoothest framerate and so that I don't have to go into the dashboard to change my settings for one game.

One of the things that Microsoft promised when the Xbox was released, and it was a BIG selling point for PAL gamers, was that we would ALWAYS have the option to have a 60Hz refresh rate. Halo, their flagship game, came out and this didn't work properly. I'd just like this to be addressed for Halo2, that's all



[Edited on 5/25/2004 8:55:03 AM]

  • 05.25.2004 8:39 AM PDT

I've already explained why they can't have a dedicated PAL60 mode - the game doesn't know when you are running it.

I always have my Xbox in normal mode, so that's not everyone ;-)

  • 05.25.2004 8:41 AM PDT
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I'd rather they'd leave it out so as not delay the launch date.

  • 05.25.2004 8:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: lobsterok
I'd rather they'd leave it out so as not delay the launch date.


i agree anything that does that is bad, very bad. but otherwise chances are it will be included

  • 05.25.2004 8:46 AM PDT