Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: Should the shotgun be able to fire buckshot and slugs?
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Subject: Should the shotgun be able to fire buckshot and slugs?
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The H2 shotgun couldn't even hurt a baby (or a kitten in this case) with a Spartan armor from just inches away; you need to make a quick additional melee to kill someone with a shotgun in H2.

In Halo1, the shotgun is much more efficient. I actually killed a guy in Boarding Action in the Maw Gathering, while we were both on opposite sides of the ship, with 1 whole "clip" of shotgun ammo. I know he had full shields because he just joined the game when I started shooting him from the other side of the map. The shotgun in Halo1 is so much more accurate than the shotgun in Halo2, it actually feels like a semi-automatic/bolt-action rifle from Call of Duty.

  • 11.04.2006 1:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ipjuunin
The H2 shotgun couldn't even hurt a baby (or a kitten in this case) with a Spartan armor from just inches away; you need to make a quick additional melee to kill someone with a shotgun in H2.

False. Absolutely false. A player with decent aim can accurately take down a player from three feet away with just one shot.

I must agree though, the shotgun in the first game is much more accurate.

  • 11.04.2006 3:18 PM PDT
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Shotguns are only lethal (in RL) under 30 feet. Anything over that thier effectiveness declines due to the patterning of the spread. Like I said earlier I've noticed no changes with the shotgun. Although it is a little difficult to quantify any changes that may have been made.

  • 11.04.2006 3:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
Shotguns aren't designed to fire one large slug but rather a compressable mass of shot. Most shotgun bores aren't cylindrical in diameter. The chamber is slightly larger to accomodate the shotshell walls. with a forcing cone to compress the shot into the bore of the gun.

Police and riot-control personnel often use non-lethal plastic slugs when they want to injure and deter rather than kill. The plastic slugs are sometimes lethal, but on accident, rather than design.

A shotgun firing a metal slug might be interesting in a Marine v. Marine mod set in an UNSC military base, featuring experimental weapons, but I don't think it would feel 'right' with SPARTANs and such.

  • 11.04.2006 3:53 PM PDT
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I actualy think that the shotgun from halo 2 was more ACCURATE. But the shots did a random amount of damage. The original shot gun wasn't as accurate, but each slug dealt FAR more damage.

  • 11.04.2006 4:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
Shotguns are only lethal (in RL) under 30 feet. Anything over that thier effectiveness declines due to the patterning of the spread. Like I said earlier I've noticed no changes with the shotgun. Although it is a little difficult to quantify any changes that may have been made.


Your crazy! A .410 ( close to a 68 gauge, I believe) is more than lethal at 75 yards! I know, I've tried it (on a target).

  • 11.04.2006 5:18 PM PDT
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and this target was no-human or alive...

  • 11.04.2006 5:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dark Hunter1069
and this target was no-human or alive...


About 11 lead shot ramming through a paper target and about halfway through a 2 foot thick support that has about the same density of a 8x10 (board, fool) indicates a fatality.
However, 30 feet is 10 yards, and a shotgun that lost effectiveness at 10 yards would not be used. Ever.

  • 11.04.2006 5:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: No Refunds
I actualy think that the shotgun from halo 2 was more ACCURATE. But the shots did a random amount of damage. The original shot gun wasn't as accurate, but each slug dealt FAR more damage.

What you think is true and what is actually true are two different things.

http://halo2sucks.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=10466

Halo 2 shotgun spread

[Edited on 11/4/2006]

  • 11.04.2006 5:39 PM PDT
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It's practicly the same with the Halo Shotgun. Like I said, it's because the slugs do more damage.

  • 11.04.2006 5:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Agamemnon582bc
Halo 2 shotgun spread

o.0... that's physically impossible, isn't it?

  • 11.04.2006 5:48 PM PDT
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I don't know about you, but I kick more ass with the shotgun than with any other weapon. Seems kinda strange, maybe I'm just lucky with it. (talking about H2 shottie)

  • 11.04.2006 5:49 PM PDT
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Making a ring around the center where not a single shot lands in the middle is no where near the same as the Halo 1 shotgun. Also, what the hell does damage have to do with innaccuracies? Also, what proof do you have of it doing more damage? have you gone into the game mechanics and checked the variables and compared them to Halo 1? That's a poor defense for the Halo 2 shotgun.

  • 11.04.2006 5:49 PM PDT
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No, but there something call observing and infering. In Halo people have shot at me from a distance where most of the rounds hit the walls and what not and only 2 or 3 hit me. Yet my sheilds will go down 25-33%.

Also, howcome whenever someone disagrees with you you have to get all pissed of and mark the begining of a flam war, like this will soon become. Chill out dude, it's a game.

  • 11.04.2006 6:14 PM PDT
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Honestly, it's you and the rest of this board who needs to chill out. If you think this is a flame war then I'd like to see you react to a real conflict. This is nothing but a discussion and I'm refuting your rebuttal; it's called a debate. Don't post your opinion if you don't want to find it being subjective to arguement. Also, factual evidence > observations. Eye witness accounts no longer hold as much evidence once it's proven that person is biased in the situation or something else was going on at the time that they were supposedly "observing" the incident.

  • 11.04.2006 6:20 PM PDT
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Maybe it's just the way you write. Or maybe it's just becuase I picture you like my cousin. Or both. Even if your not meaning to insult anyone, the way you write, and the way I read your posts (I read everyones post different based on how imagen the person), you just seam like an -blam!-....

Now I'm starting the flam war, lets get off the hating eachother topic please.

[Edited on 11/4/2006]

  • 11.04.2006 8:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: trekkie
quote]

Your crazy! A .410 ( close to a 68 gauge, I believe) is more than lethal at 75 yards! I know, I've tried it (on a target).


I wasn't speaking about a 68 gauge shotgun. Yes, there is a possibility that a lucky shot might kill someone at 75 yards. Keyword might. I've put a few rounds through a 12 gauge double, and after 30-40 yards the amount of shot on target drops dramatically. Shotguns don't kill using penetration and wound channels as regular bullets do. They kill by causing as many smaller wounds as possible. That way there is a better chance of a lethal hit. BTW: small factoid: A .22 caliber round has up to twice the penetrating power than a 9mm. Death is more certain with the 9mm however due to the larger wound channel created.

  • 11.04.2006 9:54 PM PDT
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It's just so cool that you know that......
-Gregory House

[Edited on 11/4/2006]

  • 11.04.2006 10:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
Posted by: trekkie
quote]

Your crazy! A .410 ( close to a 68 gauge, I believe) is more than lethal at 75 yards! I know, I've tried it (on a target).


I wasn't speaking about a 68 gauge shotgun. Yes, there is a possibility that a lucky shot might kill someone at 75 yards. Keyword might. I've put a few rounds through a 12 gauge double, and after 30-40 yards the amount of shot on target drops dramatically. Shotguns don't kill using penetration and wound channels as regular bullets do. They kill by causing as many smaller wounds as possible. That way there is a better chance of a lethal hit. BTW: small factoid: A .22 caliber round has up to twice the penetrating power than a 9mm. Death is more certain with the 9mm however due to the larger wound channel created.



It's referred to as a .410. An 8 gauge, what is used in Halo, is about 9 times more powerful than a .410. In the real world, there is no "lucky shot", and even if they were, they wouldn't repeat 5 times.

"I have put a few rounds through a 12 gauge double" Over and under or SBS? Don't know, do you? You say after 30-40 yards the shot drops dramatically? Thats why you raise and lead! (I must sound like a jerk by now, sorry.)

"Shotguns don't kill using penetration and wound channels as regular bullets do." Yes they do. The shotgun is meant to shoot moving or multiple targets. Each projectile is meant to penetrate just like any other bullet would. The only difference is that they are smaller, and there are more to increase the chance of hitting the target.

"BTW: small factoid: A .22 caliber round has up to twice the penetrating power than a 9mm. Death is more certain with the 9mm however due to the larger wound channel created." Which is why there are sights. That way, you know where that .22 round is going to go, and you know that your going to kill the target. However, there is more force behind the 9 mil, as well as a larger projectile. The 9 mm. has a larger surface area and once mushrooms the energy dissipates quickly. The .22 round will travel faster longer and deliver more force into the target than the 9 mm.

A less-than-famous test where an armor piercing round, a normal .50 caliber round, and a .22 swift were shot into a 1/2 inch steel plate. Both the armor piercing and the .50 caliber made nice dents. The .22 swift, however, punched clean through the steel "armor". The person who tested this then studied the effect and concluded that while the .50 had more knock down power, the swift had more shock down power. He stated that when a projectile passed a certain speed, the entire physics change. Thats why it penetrated the steel plate. I have no idea why I just wrote all that but you started it.

The same thing with the .22. The shotgun, however, doesn't go that fast. However, it only takes one BB sized pellet in the right place at 75 yards (you can put it there if you actually aimed the thing) to kill most any target. For instance, an Elk, except you wont shoot at an Elk with a shotgun, unless you have slugs.

  • 11.04.2006 11:07 PM PDT
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Owned with a capital O W N E D.

  • 11.05.2006 1:44 AM PDT
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(I must sound like a jerk by now, sorry.)

Damn straight.

Are you some kind of expert on firearms or something? Gunsmith maybe?

  • 11.05.2006 6:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: TUI_Obi_Wan
(I must sound like a jerk by now, sorry.)

Damn straight.

Are you some kind of expert on firearms or something? Gunsmith maybe?


No, but I know allot of them. I just shoot allot and coincidently learned many things about guns.

i.e. NRA

  • 11.05.2006 7:19 AM PDT
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Oh no, not another person who considers themselves a "gun expert" after reading gun wikis and going to gun nut websites. And I'm sorry if that sounds jerk-ish, but I can't stand it when people, especially kids, do that.

Note everyone, the year is 2552; if you expect Earth's military to not have surpassingly increased in its weaponry and expect it to be like 2006's weaponry, then I suggest you knock some sense into yourself. This was the problem with a couple of the weapons in Halo 2. The shotgun in Halo 1 was accurate; given, you can't snipe people with it, but it's spread isn't an 85 degree angle. The pistol from Halo 1 itself was probably one of the most advanced pieces of hardware they had; it had explosive rounds, it had a scope, and it was accurate. The sniper rifle is modelled after a real gas-powered sniper rifle of today and the assualt rifle seems like five steps back from any of today's real assualt rifles.

Then Halo 2 came along. Bungie seemed to only take more steps backward as well. The pistol became a weapon to fall back on, which I do agree is what a pistol should always be, but not after you've established that in the year 2552 that the UNSC has obviously not designed the pistol to be that way. Then you have your SMG, which I've read from various true gun experts, is the equivelant to a watered-down BB gun, yet it has an imense kick back for a super soldier with ehanced reflexes. At least your main offensive weapon (the BR) was worthwhile this time around. Don't even get me started on the shotgun in Halo 2, as you've noticed previously in this thread. The sniper rifle mainly remained unchanged and the rocket launcher recieved a lock-on feature, just like rocket launchers of today.

So if you're going to use the realism arguement, be sure to factor all of that crap in there as well. No, I don't want Halo to be realistic, but I want it to at least make sense. You don't go to war with a pistol nor with a three-burst rifle, so here's to hoping they've found a balance in Halo 3.

  • 11.05.2006 10:40 AM PDT

I wonder if the Wolf thinks the Moon listens when he howls at it.

well to begin with halo isnt costumizable with all the weapons and stuff and it never has been, so letting the shogun fire different types of ammo would mess up the feel of halo. and if you're going to make the shotgun be more custom then you have to change all the weapons, like be able to put a silencer on the BR, it just won't happen.

  • 11.05.2006 11:48 AM PDT

Don't drink to excess– You might shoot at tax-collectors... and miss

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A gun that shoots slugs? Escargot to go! Would they stick to your visor?

  • 11.06.2006 10:52 PM PDT

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