Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Halo 2 Vista FAQ updated
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Check it out on the frontpage. Good info.

Although, I am disappointed in two areas.

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The Halo 2 Map editor should allow you to create geometry. THAT is the best way to make map making more friendly and encourage newbies to get startet. :)

They mentioned 3rd party tools. If they are talking about Blender, there's no way that, by any stretch of the imagination, Blender's interface can be construed as user friendly. It takes atleast a month just to learn the frekain UI
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Halo 2 should include both new weapond and vehicles. The reason? The PC Gaming community is very skeptical. A lot are already convinced that Halo 2 is an inferior game.

Shouldn't we try to convince these "nonbelievers" otherwise?
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[Edited on 11/9/2006]

  • 11.09.2006 3:20 PM PDT
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The geometry tools the could create would be far inferior to ones out there right now. There no point. If you want to learn to map, learn to create geometry in a different program.

Thats not a valid reason to include new weapons.

I'm disappointed single player wont be supported, but I did suspect it wouldn't.

  • 11.09.2006 3:40 PM PDT
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From the FAQ:
How does a Live Windows account compare to an Xbox Live subscription? Will there be fees? How do the features of Live Anywhere stack up against those of other online services?

The Live team isn’t ready to disclose these details

Oooooh crap....

  • 11.09.2006 4:01 PM PDT
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Oh crap indeed.

  • 11.09.2006 4:30 PM PDT
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Couldn't you have posted this there instead of making a new thread?

  • 11.09.2006 4:36 PM PDT

Join the MAW Clan
X-fire username:Iggwilv
My Real Avatar

I'm fairly confident that multiplayer will be free, but that Windows Live will have a fee associated. If so it had better have a lot more features then X-fire. The ability to chat with X-boxers is not that great of a selling point to a PC gamer.

  • 11.09.2006 4:37 PM PDT
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The geometry tools the could create would be far inferior to ones out there right now. There no point. If you want to learn to map, learn to create geometry in a different program.
What tells you that they couldn't create decent modeling functionality?

Besides, having to import geomety in takes time and it throws your sense of relative scale off.


Letting you create geometry in editor is the way a lot of editors do it. That's how Bungie can build up a big commuity of mappers. It will encourage people to map.

Thats not a valid reason to include new weapons.
Now, therein lies your error. Consumer expectations plays a big role. Bungie should want to impress gamers.

Also, PC FPSs are (often) characterised by sizable arsenals of weapons. Adding mroe guns will make Halo 2 stand a better chance.

Keep in mind all the competition that it will have in 2007.

They need to have all the basics and more.

  • 11.09.2006 4:37 PM PDT
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Do you plan to enable anti-aliasing? Other visual features?

Halo 2 for Windows Vista makes use of several DirectX 9 features such as edge anti-aliasing, anisotropic texture filtering, enhanced resolution shadow buffering, additional dynamic shadows, improved normal map filtering, parallax mapping, and per pixel specular mapping.
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Sweet, Halo 2 is going to look so awesome, also interesting on the anti-aliasing, Gearbox said that they couldn't enable this on Halo PC becasue of how the game works on the xbox, but apprantly they can with Halo 2.


Will Halo 2 for Windows Vista boast the same detailed ranking and stat tracking systems as Halo 2 online via Xbox Live?

No, H2V won’t feature the same global ranking system currently supported by the Xbox version. We are opening up the online experience to better fit the PC platform and provide more flexibility for players. While there is no global stat mechanism, we are investigating the ability for dedicated server hosts to gather and display their own stats for their own servers.

Will Halo 2 for Windows Vista offer the same clan support as Halo 2 online via Xbox Live?

No, Halo 2 for Windows Vista will not offer clan support. However, organized groups of players are free to create their own dedicated servers and playlists for competitive gaming.

How does Halo 2 for Windows Vista cope with cheating, aimbots, and so on?

Cheating is a big concern for us, especially in online play, just as it is for any online game regardless of platform. Windows Vista and Live include several features intended to prevent cheating in online games, and players who need an extra degree of certainty can control their own community using Dedicated Servers or Live Friends lists. Even so, there will always be those who work around these measures and make it impossible to eliminate cheating completely. We’re doing all we can to make sure that online play is fun for the majority of honest H2V players.
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interesting news......


Are there any new multiplayer maps shipping with Halo 2 for Windows Vista?

We aren’t ready yet to announce anything about new official content. However, Halo 2 for Windows Vista will include all twenty-one maps from Halo 2 and the Halo 2 Multiplayer Map Pack. With the inclusion of the H2V Map Editor, the Halo community will be able to create a wide variety of custom multiplayer maps.
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awesome and sweet! :D


Will Bungie host its own H2V Dedicated Servers?

Yes, most likely Bungie will operate a few Dedicated Servers for use by the community, just as we did for Halo 1 PC. The exact number remains TBD. More importantly, we look forward to seeing a vibrant network of community-run servers, each running custom playlists and content.
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ok, so bungie operated servers are confirmed, but what about possible admins??


What does this toolkit include?

Just as with the HEK from Halo 1 PC, Halo 2 for Windows Vista will ship with updated versions of the three programs Bungie itself uses for map creation: Guerilla, Sapien, and Tool. Users may create 3D objects and textures in their preferred editing programs, then specify rules for those objects in Guerilla, and finally integrate them into gameplay with Sapien. Tool provides a processing pipeline between these programs.

Why doesn’t the toolkit include a 3D modeler or texture editor?

There are several extremely good 3D modeling and artistic programs on the market, including some available at no cost. Bungie itself uses third-party tools for modeling and texture creation.

Are these tools user-friendly?

We expect most users of H2V will simply enjoy the custom content created by others, rather than make their own. Guerilla, Sapien, and Tool were originally created by and for Bungie’s own developers and require some dedication to learn. That said, the toolkit for H2V is friendlier and more polished than the Halo 1 PC HEK, which the Halo community used to create over a thousand unique multiplayer maps.

How will Bungie support players who need technical advice when creating maps?

The map editor from Pi Studios will ship with a considerable amount of documentation, and we hope to release reference projects that will give players an idea of how maps are made. The tools themselves are an evolution of the Halo 1 PC map editing kit, and as such experienced HEK map-makers should feel at home. It’s also likely that Bungie will create a forum on its website for users who want to trade technical information about the new tools. And of course, the map editing community itself is always great about sharing tips and techniques across the internet.

How will an experienced HEK user benefit from upgrading to the new toolset?

The map creation toolkit in H2V has a higher degree of polish and is better supported and documented than the HEK. For example, Guerilla now automatically indexes game objects for easy access, and Sapien now supports auto-backup and undo. Pi Studios has added several other convenient features, such as the ability to view full pre-renders of maps within Sapien, and tolerance for geometry issues including object collision and open edges.

How will users get access to custom maps created by other players?

We’re investigating our options here, but aren’t ready to discuss the details. It’s important for the H2V team to strike a balance between convenience and community-building. Security and performance concerns must also be addressed.
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some good information on the mod tools, but still nothing on the distribution of the maps...


When will Halo 2 for Windows Vista ship?

The team plans to ship H2V early in 2007, some time after Windows Vista is available
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Possibly one month or a little more?


Will Halo 1 PC still run on a machine set up with Windows Vista?

Yes, the final version of Windows Vista will play Halo 1 PC with no changes required. Pre-release versions of Windows Vista such as RC-1 or RC-2 require a temporary patch to play Halo 1 PC. These early versions of Windows automatically direct Halo 1 PC users to the necessary interim patch.
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Nice, very very nice :D


I hate/love auto-aim. Will it be enabled in Halo 2 for Windows Vista?

The team will balance each input device uniquely. We don’t plan to create a one-size-fits-all solution.
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Odd interesting, and mysterious






  • 11.09.2006 4:44 PM PDT
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Nice copy-the-front-page-and-post-it-in-The Maw. u FTL!

  • 11.09.2006 4:47 PM PDT
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I think that most of the additions to the FAQ are bad news. The decision to not remove one of the biggest flaws, auto aim. I mean, Jesus Christ! We don't need auto aim! It was in the XBOX version only because it was neccesary.

We expect most users of H2V will simply enjoy the custom content created by others, rather than make their own. Guerilla, Sapien, and Tool were originally created by and for Bungie’s own developers and require some dedication to learn. That said, the toolkit for H2V is friendlier and more polished than the Halo 1 PC HEK, which the Halo community used to create over a thousand unique multiplayer maps.
what??? Are they serious?

  • 11.09.2006 4:54 PM PDT
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Yes, they are serious. They should be. If people listen to this, that mean we will have less user-created maps with flying warthogs that fire spartans, which will overall improve the quality of user-created maps.

However, regarding the auto-aim issue...

They better not put it in. Not at all. If they do I don't know what the hell I'm going to do. Upon hearing that there's a possibility that they will leave it in, I realize that Halo 2 Vista has the potential to being much more worse than Halo PC.

Before you laugh, I want to say that my initial worries about H2 Vista was that it wasn't going to be very popular. The cost of Windows Vista itself and a possible subscription fee might turn off most PC gamers. But now, I'm seriously worried that PC gamers will look with disdain upon this port from a two year old console title.

[Edited on 11/9/2006]

  • 11.09.2006 5:00 PM PDT
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We've only hit 800 maps...

  • 11.09.2006 5:00 PM PDT
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So maybe don't let people do things like flying warthogs on maps? If people wanna do crazy **** like t hat, make the option a seperate mod.

One of Halo PCs biggest problems is that peopel could introduce absurdities merely by putting them on maps.

  • 11.09.2006 5:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: stealthlogic
The geometry tools the could create would be far inferior to ones out there right now. There no point. If you want to learn to map, learn to create geometry in a different program.
What tells you that they couldn't create decent modeling functionality?

Besides, having to import geomety in takes time and it throws your sense of relative scale off.


Letting you create geometry in editor is the way a lot of editors do it. That's how Bungie can build up a big commuity of mappers. It will encourage people to map.


have you even seen the mapping community right now? It isn't "small".
If you are not illiterate, they clearly said that these are just going to be updated tools from bungie for our use. There are 3 tools; Guerilla, Sapien, and Tool. These are the tools that bungie themselves created. They are not going to create a completely new "map editor" so that every singe person can crank out crappy box maps within minuts. I would rather have a smaller selection of good maps than get a torrent of -blamism-. Also if you read it correctly, there are a few third party 3d modeling programs that are free; like gmax and blender. Guess what you can do with these modeling programs? Create charecters, scenery, dynamic objects, animations, maps, weapons, vehicles, etc. You can theoretically make a completely new game with the tools that they have given us... except that they have removed the ability to create single-player maps. Why? I'm guessing that they don't want to screw around with that part of the game code to get it to work correctly *its practically impossible to get single player maps to natively supported in ce*.

Thats not a valid reason to include new weapons.
Now, therein lies your error. Consumer expectations plays a big role. Bungie should want to impress gamers.

Also, PC FPSs are (often) characterised by sizable arsenals of weapons. Adding mroe guns will make Halo 2 stand a better chance.


3 words, Fuel Rod Cannon *or "The 1337 Flamethrower"*

What H2 has is perfectly fine, no sense in destroying the current maps. Guess what else? We can make your own with the 3D modeling programs.


I have a possible theory of what they can do with downloading maps. They could have a section on Live where you can download them. Simple? I think so.

[Edited on 11/9/2006]

  • 11.09.2006 5:18 PM PDT
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There are 3 tools; Guerilla, Sapien, and Tool. These are the tools that bungie themselves created.
I'm well aware of the tools.

hey are not going to create a completely new "map editor" so that every singe person can crank out crappy box maps within minuts.
This is absurd. By your logic, no devloper should release a map editor based on the fact that every one has to start from the bottom (and work their way up) skillwise.

I would rather have a smaller selection of good maps than get a torrent of -blamism-.
See that's just you. Did you btoher to consider other people? What if other people want to create their own maps.

No one's forcing you to download the bad maps anyway.

have a smaller selection of good maps than get a torrent of -blamism-. Also if you read it correctly, there are a few third party 3d modeling programs that are free; like gmax and blender.
Sheesh, I really wish that people would bother do do research before hitting the "post" button.

Blenders interface is terrible. It's an abomination.

Making a unified map making package wil be much more untuitive and welcoming. You wil also save time.

You can theoretically make a completely new game with the tools that they have given us...
You could do the same thing with a unified model package. The only difference is that it will be vastly easier. Making things the creation of custom content easier is one of their already stated goals regarding custom content.

3 words, Fuel Rod Cannon *or "The 1337 Flamethrower"*
In case you haven't noticed, Halo 2 is being devloped in House, by Bungie, so the new weapons will, with out a doubt, be much better.

What H2 has is perfectly fine, no sense in destroying the current maps. Guess what else? We can make your own with the 3D modeling programs.[/;quote]
Doesn't mean it can't be improved.

[quote]I have a possible theory of what they can do with downloading maps. They could have a section on Live where you can download them. Simple? I think so.

No, with your logic, it would be better if they required you to use a separate DL manager to log into a remote FTP server,

Quote Warrzzz!!

  • 11.09.2006 5:48 PM PDT
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have a smaller selection of good maps than get a torrent of -blamism-. Also if you read it correctly, there are a few third party 3d modeling programs that are free; like gmax and blender.
Sheesh, I really wish that people would bother do do research before hitting the "post" button.

Blenders interface is terrible. It's an abomination.

Why doesn’t the toolkit include a 3D modeler or texture editor?

There are several extremely good 3D modeling and artistic programs on the market, including some available at no cost. Bungie itself uses third-party tools for modeling and texture creation.


Pwnt, plain and simple.
Note that blender is open source, blame them. Gmax is slightly better seeing that it is a stripped down 3ds Max.

Posted by: stealthlogic
hey are not going to create a completely new "map editor" so that every singe person can crank out crappy box maps within minuts.
This is absurd. By your logic, no devloper should release a map editor based on the fact that every one has to start from the bottom (and work their way up) skillwise.


No, I'm saying that Bungie should not have to create a new tool when they have perfectly fine tools right there. Were getting their dev kit, with certain things cut off granted. Even from Marathon, they had separate tools to do things. They had Forge; which created the maps and populated them, applied textures and other stuff. They also had Anvil; which let you edit the physics, and I believe it also let you edit the textures that you could use.

Forge was sapien in essence, with a pseudo modeling program. They had a simple engine which used a flat plain of vertecies, then the polies had height properties. there were no slopes in the game. Anvil was guerilla, edited the properties and such.

I would rather have a smaller selection of good maps than get a torrent of -blamism-.
See that's just you. Did you btoher to consider other people? What if other people want to create their own maps.

No one's forcing you to download the bad maps anyway.


I still would have to go through a large list of crappy maps to get to any good ones according to what you say. Even after I download a map, it does not guarentee that I will have a good map. Creating your own map should not be a walk in a park IMO. It should take planning, some skill, and knowledge. Heres my question for you, have you created a map for Halo CE?



Making a unified map making package wil be much more untuitive and welcoming. You wil also save time.

You can theoretically make a completely new game with the tools that they have given us...
You could do the same thing with a unified model package. The only difference is that it will be vastly easier. Making things the creation of custom content easier is one of their already stated goals regarding custom content.


As stated earlier, why recreate tools that they already have? *Why fix somethng that is not broken?* I can create a map on free tools *excluding the price for halo pc*. I can use Gmax with the exporter from either Chimp 1.6 or Project Bluestreak, Make textures from Gimp 2, import with tool, radiosity with either tool or sapien, populate with sapien, compile with tool, play with halo ce. I see nothing hard with that.

3 words, Fuel Rod Cannon *or "The 1337 Flamethrower"*
In case you haven't noticed, Halo 2 is being devloped in House, by Bungie, so the new weapons will, with out a doubt, be much better.

What H2 has is perfectly fine, no sense in destroying the current maps. Guess what else? We can make your own with the 3D modeling programs.
Doesn't mean it can't be improved.


And what weapons should they create? They can't exactly put them into the old maps without breaking them. Sure they can make new weapons for any new maps they could create if they want... but we can also make our own weapons for our own maps too. They don't have to make new weapons if they don't wan't to. Remember, this isn't Halo 2.5.

I have a possible theory of what they can do with downloading maps. They could have a section on Live where you can download them. Simple? I think so.
No, with your logic, it would be better if they required you to use a separate DL manager to log into a remote FTP server,


What I was saying is that they could have a list of uploaded maps that you can download, just like halomaps.org. Yes, also there will be 3rd party download sites just like that site I named.

Quote Warrzzz!!
And the battle rages on...

  • 11.09.2006 6:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: stealthlogic
What tells you that they couldn't create decent modeling functionality?

Besides, having to import geomety in takes time and it throws your sense of relative scale off.


Letting you create geometry in editor is the way a lot of editors do it. That's how Bungie can build up a big commuity of mappers. It will encourage people to map.


3dsmax/maya have been in development for years. Bungie would have a few months. Why waste time creating something that has already been created anyway? There are reference models for the exact reason of scale.

Just cause alot of editors use it doesn't mean its better.

Posted by: stealthlogic
Now, therein lies your error. Consumer expectations plays a big role. Bungie should want to impress gamers.

Also, PC FPSs are (often) characterised by sizable arsenals of weapons. Adding mroe guns will make Halo 2 stand a better chance.

Keep in mind all the competition that it will have in 2007.

They need to have all the basics and more.


Impress gamers with unbalanced maps? I don't think thats what consumers want. Often, but not always characterized by sizable arsenals. This is halo, thats all you need to know about competition.

  • 11.09.2006 6:53 PM PDT
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Maw

Posted by: Chewy Gumball
3dsmax/maya have been in development for years. Bungie would have a few months. Why waste time creating something that has already been created anyway?


Are you suggesting that Bungie pirate 3DSMAX and Maya?

[Edited on 11/9/2006]

  • 11.09.2006 6:59 PM PDT
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No, Bungie payed for registered copies 3ds and Maya. Many, many copies. They are rich, you know.

  • 11.09.2006 7:30 PM PDT
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Wait, isn't Maya that rediculously expensive 3D modelling program? I remember seeing a little article about it on G4 I think. I can't remember the price but it was something in multiple thousand dollar range?

  • 11.09.2006 7:35 PM PDT
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well, both maya and 3ds max are expensive. 3ds max sells for around $3,000 last i checked *awhile ago*... mind you that these are professional modeling programs that studios use. I got my copy of 3ds max 8 for around $600, but that was a student discount.

  • 11.09.2006 7:41 PM PDT
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Gmax free, woot! Also got an outdated, semi-corrupt version of AutoCAD 2002, on my uber-leet laptop. You know, the one with the 8mb GPU? 3d images @ 1fps FTW!

  • 11.09.2006 7:44 PM PDT
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Ok, Apparently the price for Maya has gone down in the last couple years. I remember the program I saw said Maya was in the new car price range.

  • 11.09.2006 7:46 PM PDT
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DX

  • 11.09.2006 7:52 PM PDT
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the list price for 3ds max 9 is about $3,500, for maya complete 8 it is about $2,000, and for maya ultimate 8 it is a whopping $7,000.

[Edited on 11/9/2006]

  • 11.09.2006 7:57 PM PDT

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