Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Allow Single Player and UI compiling in H2EK!
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Posted by: a Grunt
The saddest part is that you know damn well that the SP content is going to get hacked anyways, all this is doing is delaying things for no good reason.

It can get hacked if the code is locked. It can't get hacked if the code is removed.

Posted by: NiTrOuSoXiDe
I will tell you that with every single new feature that is added to the tools, there are HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of test cases that need to be manually written, generated, drawn out, and executed. Then, plans have to be made, meetings have to be organized and kittens have to be sacrificed. The 'list' that resides in my 'To do' box keeps getting longer and longer and longer, but hey, like I said, I'm willing to take the blow if it means the community will get an awesome toolset.

So this will be a far cry from the crash-prone, incomprehensible-error-giving, mostly undocumented HEK? Is there any chance that, if single player support isn't in the H2EK immediately upon release, that it could be added later?

  • 11.11.2006 6:38 AM PDT
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I honestly don't think they'll remove code. It's kind of one of those things you just don't want to touch. It's not as simple as "I'll just delete this code here...here and....here" and then everything runs fine. There's dependencies up the blam-hole, so if you delete one function or module, then another function may try to call up that code, and if it's not there, it goes ape--blam!-. I'm talking like beserk Brute ape--blam!-. Not good stuff. I think what's happening is either locking, simplifiying, and failing those, just not including documentation and tags for Single Player, and leaving it up to the community to doccument it. If that's the case, well fine. I would appreciate the Bungie insight to SP, but we'll make do.

In the case of map distribution, Halomaps.org, anything else is deathly. UXB has worked too hard.

  • 11.11.2006 11:18 AM PDT
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Put it this way:


The HEK test cases were as follows:

Double click Sapien- Result: App launches - Ship it!

For Halo 2 Vista, they actually hired people to do NOTHING but test the tools.


Does that answer your question?

  • 11.11.2006 6:49 PM PDT
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Download Halo Custom Edition for user created maps!
Link
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=410
The few, the proud, the leet.

Hey Nitro, if you do manage to get SP support in, can you ensure that Recorded Animations, or their Halo 2 equivilent, are available for use? Custom SP is kinda pointless without them.

  • 11.11.2006 7:49 PM PDT
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I would think if they put in sp support, they would give us the whole shebang, not some half assed version.

  • 11.11.2006 9:09 PM PDT
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Download Halo Custom Edition for user created maps!
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http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=410
The few, the proud, the leet.

Posted by: Chewy Gumball
I would think if they put in sp support, they would give us the whole shebang, not some half assed version.


That depends on your definition of support. Technically, the HEK supports single player since it can compile single player maps properly. However, the code for creating recorded animations was cut leaving things such as riding into your custom geometry on a pelican or having dropships deliver enemies right to you impossible.

  • 11.11.2006 9:15 PM PDT

CMT Mod team leader

It be nice if the "Gathering Exception Data" message actualy gathered data... lol

  • 11.11.2006 9:20 PM PDT
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Download Halo Custom Edition for user created maps!
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http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=410
The few, the proud, the leet.

Posted by: Masterz1337
It be nice if the "Gathering Exception Data" message actualy gathered data... lol


It does. You just have to give it a while. It'd be nicer if the "Gathering Exception Data" message told the problem instead of listing where the error was in your memory sectors followed simply by saying that CE crashed. It isn't a console where that could actually help :(.

  • 11.11.2006 9:26 PM PDT
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No custom SP support for H2V=me not buying the game.

'Nuff said.

  • 11.12.2006 11:43 AM PDT

Rawr!

Posted by: Zeph
Hey Nitro, if you do manage to get SP support in, can you ensure that Recorded Animations, or their Halo 2 equivilent, are available for use? Custom SP is kinda pointless without them.

Seriously. We needed recorded animations so badly in Halo CE for SP. :(

  • 11.12.2006 2:04 PM PDT
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Download Halo Custom Edition for user created maps!
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http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=410
The few, the proud, the leet.

Posted by: Pkmnrulz240
Posted by: Zeph
Hey Nitro, if you do manage to get SP support in, can you ensure that Recorded Animations, or their Halo 2 equivilent, are available for use? Custom SP is kinda pointless without them.

Seriously. We needed recorded animations so badly in Halo CE for SP. :(


Yeah, that made me really sad when I realized I couldn't get my first level started out in Sapien because they were cut.

  • 11.12.2006 4:34 PM PDT
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Guys, I'm going to be brutally honest.

I severely doubt that SP support will be included. I really, really doubt it. I can try with all my might, but like I said, they cut it out for a reason. Whatever their reason may be, I doubt they're going to give it up.

I will try though.

I see a lot of people are threatening to not buy the game if it's not included. I think this is a pretty ignorant approach, if I may. The game itself will be TONS of fun to play, and the editting kit as it is will also be a blast to play with and enjoy. There will be tons of awesome MP maps out there, and that alone is going to make this game kick total ass.

Don't be so quick to judge the game just because it lacks a single feature.


That's almost like saying you aren't going to buy that bottle of Pepsi simply because it doesn't have an "under the cap" contest. You know you want that soda, you know it'll taste good and dammit you are thisty, but just because it lacks the little contest, you won't buy it.

[Edited on 11/12/2006]

  • 11.12.2006 5:58 PM PDT
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To be honest, that's a bad example. Ports usually have something the original game didn't have. It's a given that we're getting HEK and upgraded graphics, but we had that in the previous port. Now, this time around, we'll be missing new weapons and vehicles, which is a downgrade from Halo 1 PC. Tell me, how is Bungie advertising this game? Is it all just, "hey, you'll be able to create awesome maps and add in all your own custom content!" To me, it's just like refreshing something and re-releasing it on the market with a program that allows you to mod the hell out of it so users can further expand and improve the game. Case examples would be Oblivion and Neverwinter Nights 2 and it just seems like H2V is sort of turning out to be as so.

Yes, I'm aware you guys are working hard on lots of stuff, hopefully the netcode mainly, but not buying it after that recent update just told us/forcasted what's to become of H2V isn't ignorance; it's foreshadowing. This is a promise: if I have to pay to play H2V, I will not buy the game. Period. The only things you have to pay to play online are MMOs like Everquest and WoW, and Halo 2 is not an MMO and Bungie isn't running all the servers for people to play on.

  • 11.12.2006 6:08 PM PDT

Rawr!

Nitro, I had drawn up a 50+ page campaign for Halo Custom Edition before the HEK was released. Then we realized, "oh, no real SP support." And of course, it was forever before we really knew what we had and what we didn't have.

I *will not* buy H2V if it does not include support for custom single player content. Why the hell won't they include it? They obviously can't have that good of a reason if they won't even tell us.

Sorry. Its not worth my money.

[Edited on 11/14/2006]

  • 11.14.2006 5:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: NiTrOuSoXiDe
Guys, I'm going to be brutally honest.

I severely doubt that SP support will be included. I really, really doubt it. I can try with all my might, but like I said, they cut it out for a reason. Whatever their reason may be, I doubt they're going to give it up.

I will try though.

I see a lot of people are threatening to not buy the game if it's not included. I think this is a pretty ignorant approach, if I may. The game itself will be TONS of fun to play, and the editting kit as it is will also be a blast to play with and enjoy. There will be tons of awesome MP maps out there, and that alone is going to make this game kick total ass.


There isn't enough new stuff to make it worth my while to pay for Halo 2 again when I can already play it on an Xbox. That is the point.


Don't be so quick to judge the game just because it lacks a single feature.


It's a huge feature though. I can already get 90% of what Halo 2 vista has to offer on the Xbox. If Bungie wants people to buy the same game twice, they have to offer more than just that.


That's almost like saying you aren't going to buy that bottle of Pepsi simply because it doesn't have an "under the cap" contest. You know you want that soda, you know it'll taste good and dammit you are thisty, but just because it lacks the little contest, you won't buy it.


I already have a soda in my hand. Bungie is trying to get me to buy another soda which is basically the same as the one that has already quenched my thirst.

  • 11.15.2006 3:29 AM PDT
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This isn't for you then. This is for people who want to play with the mouse and keyboard. This is for people who don't own an xbox and won't go out and buy one just for Halo2. This is for people who want to mod the game. This obviously isn't for you as you have pointed out.

  • 11.15.2006 8:23 AM PDT
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A very very large proportion of the PC gaming community is standing right where I am now. Bungie already has the console kiddie market, so other than a few completest types they won't be able to count on ZOMG! SHINY!

The computer equivelant of that group are all playing Battlefield 90210 anyways.

Your mainstream UT/Quake/Half Life type PC FPS type is not going to be impressed by things like Live Anywhere. They are definetly not going to be impressed by autoaim, and as soon as they see how limited editing is that'll be it.

And what's this "mod" business? We get that craptacular HEK again, which means waiting for a Kornman to roll another HMT for us or whatever, and apparently they are going to try and lock us out of SP.

This is LESS than what I can do with the Halo 2 Xbox version right now! The only reason I have'nt done so is that editing stuff on the Xbox is a hassle, so I was waiting for Halo 2 Vista thinking that at least it couldn't be any more convoluted than Halo PC editing was.

Boy, I really gotta stop making those predictions!

[ghetto edit]

So the market is...people who want to play Halo 2 with K/M, and people who are simultaneously too cheap to buy a second hand Xbox but OK with paying something like double that to upgrade to Vista.

[Edited on 11/16/2006]

  • 11.16.2006 12:52 AM PDT
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Are you seriously trying to tell microsoft how to market their product?

  • 11.16.2006 9:28 AM PDT
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Microsofts experience in PC FPS is...is...Halo PC.

Given how well that went, and given that they look to be repeating the process only worse, I'd say they need all the help they can get.

Take a look at say Half Life 2, now look at where and how Halo 2 Vista is being pitched. It's like watching Lisa Simpson trying to beat Tricia Helfter in a beauty pageant. They are aiming AWAY from the mainstream PC shooter demographic.

  • 11.16.2006 11:47 AM PDT
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Not to mention M$'s track record with PC games in general.
Freelancer: dead.
MechWarrior (I think it's owned by M$): deadish.
Links: My dad plays it on his laptop. So... dead.
Any others?

  • 11.16.2006 4:25 PM PDT
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If we can't get an UnrealEd style editing kit like we where initially promised, at least let us play with the campaign. That's the only reason I bought Halo PC, and I'm not the only one.

Look at the enourmous amount of work put into deciphering that for Halo PC. Especially look at the trouble somebody went through to get all the single player tags for the Custom Edition of Halo PC.

Come on Bungie, at least tell us why.

  • 11.17.2006 11:09 AM PDT
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Microsoft is probably only good at 1 thing. Marketing. If they say something about marketing, I am inclined to believe them.

99% of the people who buy H2V won't be buying it to mod. They will see the custom content as a bonus but won't actually try it, or won't get deep enough to even try SP. There will probably be only a few, mostly the HCE modders, that would try SP stuff in the beginning.

Plus, you can just wait for Prom to come out.

[Edited on 11/17/2006]

  • 11.17.2006 12:15 PM PDT
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Maw

Posted by: Chewy Gumball
Microsoft is probably only good at 1 thing. Marketing. If they say something about marketing, I am inclined to believe them.

99% of the people who buy H2V won't be buying it to mod. They will see the custom content as a bonus but won't actually try it, or won't get deep enough to even try SP. There will probably be only a few, mostly the HCE modders, that would try SP stuff in the beginning.

Plus, you can just wait for Prom to come out.


The custom content is one of very few reasons I would buy it instead of just playing it on the Xbox. Unless I have to play for multiplayer, then I can't afford it.

  • 11.17.2006 12:27 PM PDT
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Are you going to buy it because you want to make singleplayer stuff, or because you might want to make a simple map, and play on other peoples custom maps?

  • 11.17.2006 1:43 PM PDT
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Download Halo Custom Edition for user created maps!
Link
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?pg=3&fid=410
The few, the proud, the leet.

Posted by: Chewy Gumball
Plus, you can just wait for Prom to come out.


Prom, to a non-derivitive point, is limited by the tools available.

  • 11.17.2006 2:41 PM PDT

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