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Subject: Changes are needed
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I'm everything. The when's, why's who's and what.

Tycho on the PS3 launch: "Well, you have not succeeded, not at anything laudable. You've kept young people in out in the elements for days through your ineptitude, this is true, but that is worth negapoints - a reverse scoring method exclusively for jackasses that starts at zero, and actually goes down from there."

Wu yie. Yao Gun.

Moderator Notice: This user has been blacklisted from this forum. Until the user is removed from the blacklist, all posts this user has made have been hidden, and all topics created by this user have been censored.
  • 11.13.2006 11:49 AM PDT
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The Frontline - A group dedicated to help improve the forums as a whole.

There are other ones to just 7 day and perma-bans. There are regularly month bans that are placed upon people; it's just that you can't see the length of people's bans.

I don't know to what extent people's bans can be customised, but I imagine it's fairly vast.

  • 11.13.2006 11:56 AM PDT

You are one wordy mother Rant. I did read your entire post and agree with some of it. But from someone who has had his fair share of BL's, there is a system in place.

You are BL'd by a mod. If you disagree with it, you can PM him, at which point he will normally refer you to a master forum ninja (Recon or Yoozel) for a review of whether your blacklist was warranted. Sometimes it's stricken, sometimes reduced or even sometimes *gulp* extended. If it's real serious, Achronos will sometimes get involved.

The length of the BL is up to the ninja's discretion. Seven days being the norm. But I have seen 24 hour, 48 hour BL's just for that "cooling off period" you talk about.

Anyway, your main point is there needs to be a system in place, and there is. It may not be published, but there is a chain of command with BL's.

  • 11.13.2006 11:58 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Recon's system would work if it was a perfect world and people couldn't make another account in 3 minutes (that really needs to be fixed if it can, guys.)

And in response to Rant's OP, I agree that a lot of moderating can be confusing. If you spend a fair amount of time here, you can actually tell what kind of people the mods are, seeing as how we see them day to day and they stick out so easily.

And we also have come to realize that some are frankly more strict than others. And some are very chill. Then there are those in the middle. In fact, we could probably group them all in those categories in a matter of minutes.

But the point is- Moderating (or so I've noticed) is more or less done with discretion. It seems like no other way.

There are threads I've seen where the OP should have been blacklisted on this spot, but it's just left off with a lock and quick explanation. Then there are threads where I've seen very questionable bans. But I guess that just comes with who's dealing with the problem at that time.

Is it fair? Not exactly. People get away with stuff all the time, and then that one poor soul who slipped up is banned without a warning. But in defense, he should have known the Rules. Regardless, if you're going to do something for one individual, you should do it for all of them, or else it looks like you're playing favorites.

The system works, but the fact that it's done based on discretion is a bit of a double-edged sword. And Recon, your idea would work if there wasn't a way to get past the banning process so easily :-/

[Edited on 11/13/2006]

  • 11.13.2006 12:46 PM PDT
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So far I've gotten three, three day blacklists because I logged onto my friends Passport thingy, I lived through them, and didn't bother to PM a mod about it because it's only three days. While I would prefer if the blacklistings were dealt based on when you were on Bungie.net I do understand that it's probably MUCH easier to do it though the passport, seeing as how it logs when you log in, but not when you're looking at a webpage.

I just want to know if you can argue a blacklisting because you logged into a blacklisted passport account, but didn't go on Bungie.net.

  • 11.13.2006 1:24 PM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I really like your idea Recon. I myself have always wondered if a member could become a mod if they've been blacklisted before (might sound weird to think like that, but oh well). I guess the answer is yes because no one can really tell that member's history here, save maybe Achronos and the B.net staff.

Perhaps the ninjas could come up with a list of rules for them to follow about blacklisting and whatnot, but still interpret some things for themselves?...

  • 11.13.2006 1:26 PM PDT
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I still say that there should be IP bans to avoid blacklist avoiding. Everyone says, "Oh, you can just change your IP." Well I've been using computers for about a long time now and have no idea how to change it. Most people who spam forums don't know how, either.

  • 11.13.2006 2:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Evil Fluffy
I still say that there should be IP bans to avoid blacklist avoiding. Everyone says, "Oh, you can just change your IP." Well I've been using computers for about a long time now and have no idea how to change it. Most people who spam forums don't know how, either.


True, most people using a static IP could be banned, but a lot of server systems use dynamic IP's, which means the IP changes constantly. So your method would be unreliable.

Also, from country to country the rules are different for Bungie attempting to access or even look at someone's IP address. So while you could ban people here in the US, you might not be able to in another country.

  • 11.13.2006 2:55 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

Posted by: Shishka
Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave.

Wow, quite a post Rant. I agree with it for the most part. There needs to be some changes here. There needs to be a set definition of what constitutes spamming, flamming, etc. Then the mods can go from there. What I was thinking was maybe the blacklist has to be approved by a second, or third mod (if it's serious enough, Achronos). Both mods could interprit it differently and give there side of the argument, and involve the member a bit too. I know it's sounding more like the Supreeme Court more than a game designer's forum, but I think it could help.

I like Recon's idea, but my question is, will the member be able to see his own blacklist level? If he/she didn't know what their level was, they could be more reluctant to post some things.

I also think IP banning would help a lot more than perma-bans. A few days ago someone in the Flood made some post about the noob of the week awards. Then if he/she got banned, they would make another account, and repost it. I don't know any of the technical stuff behind it, but I know there's a reason Achronos doesn't do that.

  • 11.13.2006 6:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: ODST27
Wow, quite a post Rant. I agree with it for the most part. There needs to be some changes here. There needs to be a set definition of what constitutes spamming, flamming, etc. Then the mods can go from there. What I was thinking was maybe the blacklist has to be approved by a second, or third mod (if it's serious enough, Achronos). Both mods could interprit it differently and give there side of the argument, and involve the member a bit too. I know it's sounding more like the Supreeme Court more than a game designer's forum, but I think it could help.

I like Recon's idea, but my question is, will the member be able to see his own blacklist level? If he/she didn't know what their level was, they could be more reluctant to post some things.

I also think IP banning would help a lot more than perma-bans. A few days ago someone in the Flood made some post about the noob of the week awards. Then if he/she got banned, they would make another account, and repost it. I don't know any of the technical stuff behind it, but I know there's a reason Achronos doesn't do that.

There are IP bannings, they are just rare.

  • 11.13.2006 7:19 PM PDT
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I've been banned once months ago. I never found out why when I started asking some moderators. I don't recall ever posting something ban-worthy and usually try and keep it non flamitory. But ah well, they come and go, just accept them when they do.

  • 11.13.2006 11:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rant
To me there are too few mods. And a majority of the mods here dont seem to be on the same page.

Dunno why you said this. You're whole argument is based on the fact that two mods didn't talk about something. More mods will just complicate things further.

Anyway, until there's some sort of comment system on certain threads, there'll be confusion.

Example: Two guys are flaming in a rather large thread. They're both warned over PM, and no further action is taken. Rather than have another mod come in, see the flaming and ban both of them, we can leave a little note on the thread (that only other moderators can see) that says something like "I warned them both at -:--, if any further flaming occurs, go nuts".

Actually, I really like that idea. Some sort of flagging system for the mods to use with each other. Some sort of easy to use text box at the top of the thread, where you can delete the comment without having to click "Edit" or something.

Sounds too hard to impliment though. Nevertheless, one can dream.
-TGP-

  • 11.14.2006 12:04 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

IRT: TGP (yay acronyms >.>)

Well, moderators already have the ability to see things that the average member can't, such as the Unleash Ninjas button. So we know that there is at least some way of doing that in place, although I have no idea if it could be used in this idea. It seems like that part wouldn't be too hard, though.

There is also a bit of room up there to the right of the bookmark button. Perhaps there could be another button on the thread that would allow a mod to write a short comment, such as your example, which would appear up there. But I'm not sure what would happen if another mod wanted to add something too. Maybe it could be mad so that room is made for it id it is needed. But then that goes more into territory that I can't explore, so I think I'll leave it at this for now.

  • 11.14.2006 1:11 AM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Example: Two guys are flaming in a rather large thread. They're both warned over PM, and no further action is taken. Rather than have another mod come in, see the flaming and ban both of them, we can leave a little note on the thread (that only other moderators can see) that says something like "I warned them both at -:--, if any further flaming occurs, go nuts".

Actually, I really like that idea. Some sort of flagging system for the mods to use with each other. Some sort of easy to use text box at the top of the thread, where you can delete the comment without having to click "Edit" or something.

I like that.

As things stand, it's often hard for us to communicate effectively. We work on different schedules and live in different timezones; a PM might go twelve hours without being read. Chat programs can help, but only if all ninja can use them (I can't) and only if the ninja in question isn't asleep or at work when the call comes in.

  • 11.14.2006 2:37 AM PDT

I think the current systems in place are pretty effective, but i think a thread flagging system would be good for the mods. I also think they need to work out a way to keep from ppl creating several accounts.

  • 11.14.2006 2:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
If I understand TGP's idea...

Basically that's what I meant. Surprising, seeing as though I was suffering from mild heat stroke and awesome migraine when I wrote it. :/

-TGP-

  • 11.14.2006 6:14 AM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Intriguing. I am not sure if it is possible, but it is an interesting idea.

はい、そうだ!

[Edited on 11/14/2006]

  • 11.14.2006 6:52 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Posted by: BobBQ
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Intriguing. I am not sure if it is possible, but it is an interesting idea.

灰、そうだ!


That was rather mean to say. 8O

  • 11.14.2006 8:38 AM PDT
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The Frontline - A group dedicated to help improve the forums as a whole.

Posted by: BobBQ
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Intriguing. I am not sure if it is possible, but it is an interesting idea.

灰、そうだ!

/me revives the foreign languages thread.

That went down a bomb.

Anyway, I like both Recon's and TGP's ideas. Maybe they'll both come into play! :o

  • 11.14.2006 9:55 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Rant, come on, please stick around. You're a unique, and good member. Don't sweat the drama, I know you're tougher than that.

Just live and let live sometimes. That's how it goes in life, and I guess we should just let that go on here day to day. But you don't have to leave. Stick around bro.

You made a great thread in here, and maybe it'll take notice. Some good ideas have been tossed around because of this thread. You don't need to leave man.

  • 11.14.2006 5:48 PM PDT

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