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Subject: Extra punishment...

Posted by: Rant


Atomic. I like you. I hear what youre saying, but just as others can complain about needle shotguns or the need to ban certain words, or the need to impose "harsher" measures on users I can counter complain. Or as I call it counter -blam!-ing. I honestly dont give a fudge if I get banned or not anymore seeing as the "system" is not really something I agree with or makes sense. The mods are jokes. ANd its a gaming site for -blam!-s sake. A bungie employee comes and tells me I'm an idiot. I dont care. This is like a hobo coming up to me on the train and telling me I stink. I just go WTF and chuckle. I buy the games. Which means I help put a roof over their heads. I dont kiss the feet of people who sell me ads. I dont take the opinion of a manager at a local Gamespot as gospel. THey have a job. So do I. They make games. {claps} I buy them. Circle of Life.


You're a passionate guy Rant, and I like that about you. You've got spunk kid, and that's a good quality.

But your anger and frustration IMO is misdirected. I've seen you do this with quite a few threads. You "rant" (a very appropriate name BTW) and don't look at what people are telling you.

Is any process perfect? Hell no, but the ninja system in place is a heck of a lot more effiecient and fair than it's ever been. If you've been blacklisted and aren't satisfied with the reason by the time your case get's to Achronos? Then you're just not willing to accept the truth.

ninja + master forum ninja + Achronos = pretty damn fair.

  • 11.17.2006 10:43 AM PDT
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I like to Rollick

"It's a gaming site"

Perfect, don't make threads making up an issue so you can have a forum to complain and cry about your blacklist, don't insult and badger mods that you been involved with on the public forums.

If the moderator interpreted your actions to be malicious then so be it, it's just seven days and it's just a gaming site, no need to be a "general nuisance" about it.

You lost by making a seven day blacklist seem like something more.

  • 11.17.2006 11:24 AM PDT

This whole discussion reminds me of Frankie's quote, 'Ah, a complaint about the Complaints Box! Delicious...'

To me the system works fine, given that people understand what is for and how it works, albeit 'a system'. I've never been blacklisted myself, not meaning to brag at all, so I can't really complain.

A couple of times I've posted things more out of emotion and less of thinking. When I come back later or the next day and re-read most times I'm like, 'Eh, sheesh. What was I thinking? Oh wait, that's right. I wasn't.' It amazes me to no ends how much people can complain about how unfairly they are treated, on an internet forum of all things.

  • 11.17.2006 11:49 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

To who ever said just limit them to zero posts.


Getting around a Blacklist to see the forums is very simple.

Just dont sign into your account. Then you can see what the talk of the town is.

So the person is still being punished in that they cant repl, but they dont have to see the mean looking BL screen.

  • 11.17.2006 2:28 PM PDT
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News? Podcasts? Machinima? Active forums? Competitions? Jaffa Cakes!? OMG!
Thee Warriors!

Best. Mod. Ever.

Posted by: Johnrap
I don't want to be a jerk, but since that's somewhat unavoidable...

Imagine you have a favorite bar you hang out in. Everybody goes there and hangs out and jokes around. Everyone in the bar wears blue hats, except for 4 guys that wear white hats. Then one day, you're telling jokes same as every other day, but you tell one that one of the guys in white hats doesn't like. So, then you get banned from the bar for a week and you are basically not allowed to talk to any of your blue hatted friends, just because one white hat doesn't think you're funny.

News flash: I'm NOT funny. Unless we're using funny as a synonym for annoying or sweaty. But does this mean I'm not allowed to drink beer with my friends?

(This is hypothetically, not really about me.)


This reminds me of a scene from Clockwork Orange.

And what do you mean 'hypothetically'?

[Edited on 11/17/2006]

  • 11.17.2006 2:57 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Johnrap
I don't want to be a jerk, but since that's somewhat unavoidable...

Imagine you have a favorite bar you hang out in. Everybody goes there and hangs out and jokes around. Everyone in the bar wears blue hats, except for 4 guys that wear white hats. Then one day, you're telling jokes same as every other day, but you tell one that one of the guys in white hats doesn't like. So, then you get banned from the bar for a week and you are basically not allowed to talk to any of your blue hatted friends, just because one white hat doesn't think you're funny.

News flash: I'm NOT funny. Unless we're using funny as a synonym for annoying or sweaty. But does this mean I'm not allowed to drink beer with my friends?

(This is hypothetically, not really about me.)


I don't think that actually fits into the situation. The White Hats are more likely to "ban" you because you start a fight. Unless, of course, a particular White Hat were "banning" you because of a joke. In which case, perhaps you should take the problem up with the bar owner. Plus, you're Blue Hat friends are allowed to talk to you anywhere else. You're just not allowed to cause problems for the general public.

  • 11.17.2006 2:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: Johnrap
Imagine you have a favorite bar you hang out in. Everybody goes there and hangs out and jokes around. Everyone in the bar wears blue hats, except for 4 guys that wear white hats. Then one day, you're telling jokes same as every other day, but you tell one that one of the guys in white hats doesn't like. So, then you get banned from the bar for a week and you are basically not allowed to talk to any of your blue hatted friends, just because one white hat doesn't think you're funny.

The bar is run by the white hats. If one white hat bans someone for telling a joke that he doesn't like personally, then the other white hats may step in and allow the blue hat to get back into the bar, because it wasn't really an appropriate ban.

But if you start a fight, then they'd probably have to eject you from the bar for the night (7 days). "You've had too much to drink, go cool off".

If you get booted from the bar for a reason you think is stupid, then ask another mod, or a master mod! Someone was banned a few days ago for linking to a site that had the recent Halo 3 info on it, because the mod who banned them had been warned during Halo 2's development for doing the same thing. Then the member took it up with Achronos and the situation was fix0rz.

PS. If your situation is referring to Rant and his joke he made, I didn't even ban him, I only warned him.

-TGP-

  • 11.17.2006 3:39 PM PDT

Posted by: dmbfan09
Posted by: Malcolmsun
* 2) The first may be slightly pointless, seeing as you can't post in a blacklist anyway, so if you do post a thread about "why was I blacklisted" you get another, longer Blacklist.
If a moderator sees a "I'm back from my blacklisting" thread, it will be locked and the user will usually be warned. Of course, there are some moderators that take your advice above and just blacklist the user again.

Aren't you a mod dmbfan09?!

  • 11.17.2006 3:41 PM PDT
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Osmosis!

Wow wow wow settle guys, I didn't want this to be another *slag off everyone not on your side* thread, I wanted it for civil discussion about how one could get rid of needless threads.

Oh you know what these situations (the "why did I get BLed?" ones), when someone is wrongly ticketed for speeding or something then they go complain to all the Interview Shows about how unfair the system is and they don't know why they were ticketed. Those things really get on my nerves.

Anyway, in all honesty, if you don't know why you were BLed... can you not keep a track of your posts!? Those types of people who think they are inocent, you did nothing wrong *cough* you sound like a 5 year old *cough* grow up and take the consequences.

  • 11.17.2006 3:52 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Getting rid of them isn't hard, at least for the ninjas. It's preventing them that's hard. If somebody gets blacklisted, appeals, is not approved, and then complains, is it very fair then that that person just gets blacklisted all over again? If anything you create a really bitter person, and really bitter people become spammers.

And it seems like you're saying there should be no appeals process, because if you were blacklisted and don't know why, it's just too bad. I'm sure the ninjas hate getting complaints, but I'm sure they'd feel really bored being the only people on Bungie.net because they were unfair.

  • 11.17.2006 4:14 PM PDT
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Osmosis!

Posted by: Mabian
And it seems like you're saying there should be no appeals process, because if you were blacklisted and don't know why, it's just too bad. I'm sure the ninjas hate getting complaints, but I'm sure they'd feel really bored being the only people on Bungie.net because they were unfair.


No no, not at all. I'm saying USE that appeals process, and keep it private. Not many people want to hear about how someone got ignored.

  • 11.17.2006 4:41 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Malcolmsun
No no, not at all. I'm saying USE that appeals process, and keep it private. Not many people want to hear about how someone got ignored.


Then on that point I am ready to accept. But I do not like the idea of punishing someone for a single relatively minor offense. As far as punishment is concerned, a member who has been blacklisted should be given the same chance as a member who hasn't. That said, someone who makes a "I was treated unfairly" thread is slapped on the wrist and warned just as someone who makes a "My ideas for Halo 3" thread in the Septagon.

  • 11.17.2006 5:38 PM PDT
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I personally think the system works fine. I myself have never been black listed or ever warned. But i am thankful that i only have to endure spam from someone once before the mods take care of it.

  • 11.18.2006 1:59 PM PDT
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Sometimes the reason is unlear like "Blacklisted for spamming" Well, spamming is a very general term, pyramiding quotes, posting multiple times in a row, making pointless threads, talking in all caps, from my experience they never specify to that detail. I thought the reason for blacklisting is a punishment and the blacklisting page is to give the reason why, so that person does not do it again. Most people get blacklisted several times, and for the same reasons, because they don't know what they're doing wrong, so there is obviously some fault in the system.

What I'm not saying is that it's never the person's fault, because sometimes the person's just retarded and immature, and is well aware of what they're doing. However, most are unaware.

Perhaps the HFCS (I think that's it) should make a definitive list of blacklist-able offenses. DO as the romans did, and put a "stone tablet" of blacklist-able offenses posted on every forum, as apposed to relaying on the sense of others, which is lacking.

  • 11.18.2006 3:58 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I think the rules posted in the stickies are the "stone tablet" you're talking about. Some people don't understand exactly why they are banned when it is for "spamming," but if that person doesn't know, he is in charge of asking a moderator (hopefully the one who blacklisted him). From what I've heard, if you get blacklisted for something that isn't obvious, or that you weren't previously warned about, you get a message from the moderator that banned you.

  • 11.18.2006 4:30 PM PDT
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I was banned by Shishka for the reason "Spamming", then PMed him respectively asking him why I was banned, and he never replied. I've also heard other counts of this happening, but maybe that's just him. Plus, I've never seen any warnings from any moderators on the forums, ever, just a "You're banned" although most moderators are fair and moderate the forums instead of just banning members.

  • 11.18.2006 4:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Craz3d
Plus, I've never seen any warnings from any moderators on the forums, ever, just a "You're banned" although most moderators are fair and moderate the forums instead of just banning members.

How often do you see the PMs that we send to members?

-TGP-

  • 11.18.2006 4:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Johnrap
I don't want to be a jerk, but since that's somewhat unavoidable...

Imagine you have a favorite bar you hang out in. Everybody goes there and hangs out and jokes around. Everyone in the bar wears blue hats, except for 4 guys that wear white hats. Then one day, you're telling jokes same as every other day, but you tell one that one of the guys in white hats doesn't like. So, then you get banned from the bar for a week and you are basically not allowed to talk to any of your blue hatted friends, just because one white hat doesn't think you're funny.

News flash: I'm NOT funny. Unless we're using funny as a synonym for annoying or sweaty. But does this mean I'm not allowed to drink beer with my friends?

(This is hypothetically, not really about me.)


It is more like this. There is a guy in an orange hat. He runs the bar and wants to keep it nice and friendly. He looks at the some of the blue hat guys that come often and finds ones that he thinks show proper judgement and respect. He takes these blue hat guys, offers them a white hat and the security position in the bar. He gives them rules to follow in which blue hats need to taking out.

The white hatted guards go throughout the bar as normal except when they think that someone has violated the rules that the orange hat man has set out for the bar, they take them out like they are supposed to. The white hatted guys don't take guys out of the bar when they offend them personally, unless it does indeed violate the rules.

Occasionally, some blue hat guys get mad at the white hat guys for doing their job. They call them corrupt and that they abuse their security role. Really these guys are the bitter ones getting tired of the much deserved toss out of the bar and into the dirt. Other blue guys are jealous of the white hat guys' white hats and insult them because they have a white hat, not really because of his character. Everything the white hat guys do, they try their hardest to take offense from it and convince themselves to believe that the white hat guys have poor character.


[Edited on 11/18/2006]

  • 11.18.2006 5:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Reiginko
Good to see at least somebody takes this place seriously

I am sincerely disappointed in everyone except JIMH. JIMH, have a gold star.


',:\ IF YA SAHMELLLL

Posted by: Craz3d
Plus, I've never seen any warnings from any moderators on the forums, ever, just a "You're banned" although most moderators are fair and moderate the forums instead of just banning members.

The warnings are when the thread is just locked. Banning, except in severe occasions or ones outline in the code of conduct, usually comes after that.

  • 11.18.2006 5:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Craz3d
I was banned by Shishka for the reason "Spamming", then PMed him respectively asking him why I was banned, and he never replied. I've also heard other counts of this happening, but maybe that's just him. Plus, I've never seen any warnings from any moderators on the forums, ever, just a "You're banned" although most moderators are fair and moderate the forums instead of just banning members.


Shishka, Frankie, Achronos and the other super users often don't/can't respond to PM's because they can't/shoudn't try responding to the hundred of PM's they get a day.

  • 11.18.2006 5:11 PM PDT
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Well, Frankie and Achronos aren't moderators, it's not there job. Shishka is a moderator, and I think he could answer a simple question, in 1 or 2 minutes. Maybe I just caught him at a bad time. And I never said moderators gave out any warnings, just never posted a warning on the forums publicly.

  • 11.18.2006 8:09 PM PDT
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Maybe an extra punishment is that it takes away your ability to have a signature when you come out of the blacklist?

  • 11.18.2006 8:59 PM PDT
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Osmosis!

Posted By: Craz3d
And I never said moderators gave out any warnings, just never posted a warning on the forums publicly.

They don't post warnings on forums, just like you don't get a warning from the cops publicly.

And to the guy above me:
:) nice idea.

  • 11.18.2006 9:04 PM PDT

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