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Subject: Rank Names
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: Pink Menace
Well if it showed it wouldn't be "tacit", and it becomes wrong. The standards I hold myself to are my own business.


Well of course it wouldn't be tacit if it became explicit. But certainly you'll agree that elitism can begin implicitly and become explicit.

Are you saying that Bungie.net should try and regulate my mind? Because I'd certainly have the place be overrun with elitist, racist jerks then be brainwashed O.O

Brainwash? Perish the thought. But all elitism is bad. It's unavoidable, since we're all elitist to some degree or another (yes, even me), but it's still bad, and promoting it is not something that should be done. However, individuality should be encouraged, but you don't need a rank to make you individual, so the rank becomes superficial. And in case you haven't noticed, I'm really opposed to superficiality.

And who's to say that I'll be given rank? Mabye others being a higher rank will finally show me that I'm not the best, thus reducing elitism. There are too many unknowns in this situation. It's completely unpredictable.

Well, it would reduce your elitism. But what if I got the rank? More likely than not, it would increase my elitist nature. And you might also "gain" (in quotations because it's an odd use of the word) envy rather than "lose" elitism.

  • 11.29.2006 6:26 PM PDT
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Who cares if people are egotistical elitists or not. It really comes down to the quality of their posts. Nothing should be changed as far as ranks go unless it is done by the mods of this site. If the mods choose based on quality then the right person will get recognition. If they are full of themselves, who cares? As long as the quality of posts does not suffer it will not be a negative.

  • 11.29.2006 7:18 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: WyattFNEarp
Who cares if people are egotistical elitists or not. It really comes down to the quality of their posts. Nothing should be changed as far as ranks go unless it is done by the mods of this site. If the mods choose based on quality then the right person will get recognition. If they are full of themselves, who cares? As long as the quality of posts does not suffer it will not be a negative.


Sure, it doesn't hurt us now. How could it? These people are keeping their feelings to themselves. Does that mean that nurturing their elitist beliefs won't affect their behavior? Certainly not.

If you want to convince me that ranks are good, then you'll have to convince me that elitism in any form, or the promotion thereof, if a good thing. Or give me a good reason why honor isn't enough.

  • 11.29.2006 7:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mabian
Sure, it doesn't hurt us now. How could it? These people are keeping their feelings to themselves. Does that mean that nurturing their elitist beliefs won't affect their behavior? Certainly not.

If you want to convince me that ranks are good, then you'll have to convince me that elitism in any form, or the promotion thereof, if a good thing. Or give me a good reason why honor isn't enough.


You aren't understanding the words I am writing. I said that it would be advisable only in the specific circumstance of a Mod choosing a rank for an individual. These ranks would not be given lightly.
If the mod has done his/her research to the appropriate amount, they should be able to differentiate a quality poster from one who speaks from mindlessness.
If that person changes after their "promotion" and the quality of their posts suffer, the mods would also have the power to demote that individual.
On top of all this, it doesn't matter if elitism is good, it only matters if the result is negative or positive. On this note, the military uses a rank system. It works quite effectively and encourages efficacious behavior.
Honor is very important to me, look at my sig. Recognition of honor is also key, as much as one would wish otherwise. For those who have honor but aren't recognized for it often lack the objectivity into their own selves that they would need to measure where they are at.

  • 11.29.2006 7:59 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: Mabian
Posted by: WyattFNEarp
Who cares if people are egotistical elitists or not. It really comes down to the quality of their posts. Nothing should be changed as far as ranks go unless it is done by the mods of this site. If the mods choose based on quality then the right person will get recognition. If they are full of themselves, who cares? As long as the quality of posts does not suffer it will not be a negative.


Sure, it doesn't hurt us now. How could it? These people are keeping theirfeelings to themselves. Does that mean that nurturing their elitist beliefs won't affect their behavior? Certainly not.

If you want to convince me that ranks are good, then you'll have to convince me that elitism in any form, or the promotion thereof, if a good thing. Or give me a good reason why honor isn't enough.

I think a definition of elitism is in order.
Elitism is the belief or attitude that the people who are considered to be the elite — a selected group of persons with outstanding personal abilities, wealth, specialised training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are the people whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously
So you're morally opposed to having a professor in your college? I don't understand why everyone hates elitism so much.

Aren't the mods just a group of people whos specialised experience has led to their selection by Achronos? He trusts a small group of people to maintain order, in essence to rule, a larger group of people. I'd be willing to bet that you don't dislike them any more for it. Do you harbor any disdain for the theme masters?

Let's say, hypothetically, that you have an older brother who's basketball team won the state championship. Would you dislike him and his team for having won? No, because they earned it.

Can we agree that these forms of elitism aren't bad?

Assuming the answer is yes, why would it be terrible to add another rank to Bungie.net? Equate it to the mods. Achronos, or the mods, find an outstanding members who really contributes. Everyone knows him and knows all the good he's done. He's now a higher rank. Is that really such a bad thing? Why is every person who gets promoted evil and horrible and cruel? Do you really think that the mods are so shortsighted that they can't tell some elitist jerk from someone who really has good intentions?

EDIT: And adding a ranking system can hardly be called nurturing negative elitism. Nobody is sitting down spoonfeeding Bungie.net lies about why it's "cool" to discriminate. It's rewarding good behavior and punsihing bad behavior. I dont' see how it's much more complex then that.

[Edited on 11/29/2006]

  • 11.29.2006 7:59 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

I think that the mods have enough to do already, they don't need to even think about ranks. Though the web team does, and I hope that they do something different, but its not too big a deal. We have gotten along fine until now without ranks, so we don't really need them. But I want them, and it seems that most of the rest of us want them too. It just has to be implemented correctly.

Which is why I said earlier that they should be given out in a similar way to the Theme Master rank. Other contributions, off-site and on-site, that may warrant a different title.

I thought that the join dates were taken away because of all the elitism that it inspired. I've been told to shut up and go to hell simply because of the' 06 that was under my avatar. You may not have seen it Pink, but a lot of the rest of us did. And they wouldn't have made any code changes and got rid of the join dates if it was simply "unnecessary".
Though I can't give you evidence of that, I remember it very clearly. And I also remember Achronos mentioning it a long time ago. But if you continue to dispute the "elitism" issue, I can't stop you. You can make a valid point about it, but I think that's just because the join dates are gone now, so it hasn't happened in awhile.

And I don't think that Mabian rejects all authority, he just recognizes a possible problem, and doesn't think that changing anything is worth it. But I shouldn't try to speak for him, I'm sure he'll tell you all about his beliefs on this subject.

I certainly don't reject authority. Its just that all the users who have authority now were deemed capable of it by Achronos. We agree that any one else who gets a different title should and will get it because the authority will deem them capable of handling it. I don't know what your arguing about in relation to this point.

So to surmise, new titles=good idea. Elitism=possible. Most of us=in total agreement.

  • 11.29.2006 8:22 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I'm beginning to feel I'm leading this thread way too off-topic. So for the sake of letting other people talk about the actual topic, I'll simply say that I am opposed to member ranks for a very complex reason. And that "elitism" is not the right term.

But it was interesting nonetheless.

  • 11.29.2006 8:24 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member
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Sleep is a guilty, vicious liar. It's nothing more than short relief.

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Skype: JokersWilde

Alright, this thread has gotten everyone's view on the matter out in the open. I think it has fulfilled it's purpose and run it's course.

If the feature is to be added in "The New Hawtness", so be it. If not, that's fine as well.

-Akjak

  • 11.29.2006 8:27 PM PDT

There's only one kind of metal, and it's black.

Posted by: King Picollo
Beer = win

I think it would be the death of these forums, just like ranks were the death of matchmaking.

  • 11.30.2006 2:34 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Well Pink posted the definition and we are clearly using the wrong word.


Does anyone know what word describes somone who thinks they are above somone else?

  • 11.30.2006 12:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
Well Pink posted the definition and we are clearly using the wrong word.


Does anyone know what word describes someone who thinks they are above someone else?


European?






Yes, I'm just joking.

-Cloud-

[Edited on 11/30/2006]

  • 11.30.2006 3:09 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: Cloud Nine
Posted by: EAGLES5
Well Pink posted the definition and we are clearly using the wrong word.


Does anyone know what word describes someone who thinks they are above someone else?


European?






Yes, I'm just joking.

-Cloud-

Hahaha! You am winner.

That was the funniest thing I've read today =]

  • 11.30.2006 4:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
Does anyone know what word describes somone who thinks they are above somone else?


Elitism can be used in this sense. Elitism is not static though. One can be an elitist and have a misplaced belief that they are better than someone else.

Delusional comes to mind :)

The most accurate word would be conceited; egotistical also could be accurate.

  • 11.30.2006 4:52 PM PDT
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Ok. So if bungie is so against...(sorry for saying it again) elitism, and won't make ranks on bungie.net due to this, why do they have displayed ranks on XBL Halo 2? I mean, what purpose does it serve to see them? If you don't want people to flaunt ranks on bungie.net, whey not be consistent with it? Remove visible ranks on Live then as well.

I dunno, just seems a little inconsistent to me.

  • 12.01.2006 6:01 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Meh. Call them jerks. That's all they are =/

  • 12.01.2006 6:18 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member
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Posted by: WyattFNEarp
Ok. So if bungie is so against...(sorry for saying it again) elitism, and won't make ranks on bungie.net due to this, why do they have displayed ranks on XBL Halo 2? I mean, what purpose does it serve to see them? If you don't want people to flaunt ranks on bungie.net, whey not be consistent with it? Remove visible ranks on Live then as well.

I dunno, just seems a little inconsistent to me.


Elitism on Xbox Live isn't so bad because not all members have immediate access to one another. They can only be jerks to people they come into contact with or that they obtain the Gamertag of from another source.

Here on Bungie, all members have immediate access to every other members profile and groups and can be as big a jerk as possible. Everyone pretty much knows the same people on here, so when something happens to one member (example: They become a Moderator or have a news story posted on the front page), basically everybody on these forums has seen and can gain access that person without any trouble whatsoever.

And, this being a discussion board, threads can be made about it and be seen by everybody unlike Xbox Live.

An online gaming service for a console is also different because everyone just has to preform a certain number of actions to obtain the same rank as the other person unlike these boards.

On these boards there is no set limit to any action that a certain member can preform to be given a "spotlight" as it were. And Bungie.net members being the jerks that they are feel that this certain member who was given this special title is a more favored member than he/she.

On Xbox Live, people know that they can achieve a level equal to or greater than that of someone else with hard work.

In other words, Xbox Live and a message board should not be compared in these ways because they work so differently.

Also, not everyone who plays Halo 2 comes here. So if you were to remove their rank on Xbox Live.....well I need not go there.

-Akjak

[Edited on 12/1/2006]

  • 12.01.2006 9:02 PM PDT
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Elitism on a forum is a bigger problem than on Xbox Live. If you find a jerk on Live, you just leave that game and chances are you won't meet him again; here, it's very different.

  • 12.04.2006 5:56 AM PDT

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