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Subject: The benifits of creating a rulebook for the bungie forums
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Yes, I am the original Logical Thinking, AkA The Pezza Hacker, The Revolution, Logic, Pillogical, KSI Se7en 7, Death v2, SbK Leader, etc.

Posted by: impurity, ICEMAN ASSASS1N, Legend Envy, Thaggles, Pillage Plunder and EliT3 iS teH GoD
Logical Thinking is a friggin' genious.
*applauds*

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  • 11.29.2006 9:23 AM PDT
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but i think a rulebook just goes over the stickies again

people who dont care about the rules are not going to read it are they

  • 11.29.2006 9:54 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

If people wont read the rules that bungie already has and the rules the mods posted in every forum then i doubt they will read more.

  • 11.29.2006 10:05 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Logical Thinking, what is your illogical reasoning behind doing something that has already been done? The rules are perefectly clear, in every forum.

The only one I dislike is that a few of the forums don't say "FORUM RULES", they say something like "ʘ Welcome to the Halo 3 forum! ʘ Forum Guidelines and FAQ ʘ"

I think a big fat FORUM RULES would be much better. One in every forum.

  • 11.29.2006 10:18 AM PDT
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* A rulebook could not be created that would cover every possible instance of unacceptable behavior.
* Even if every possible violation could be listed and charted with a penalty, besides being a huge and unwieldy document, it would also be a "how to" for people who "never thought of THAT disruption".
* If "unacceptable behavior" is defined too precisely, then people would "flirt with the edge". For example, a rule of "posting the same word/phrase > 100 times constitutes text-flooding and will result in a 60 day blacklisting" would instantly have people doing it 99 times and complaining that they were "following the rulebook".

Simple guidelines are far better than specific detailed laws/rules. I'm not using this example as a religious point, but rather one of extraordinary wisdom.

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

The fact is that the question was intended to be a trap. By declaring one law "more important than the others" would open him up to criticism that he didn't value ALL of the laws.

By answering as he did, he not only avoided the trap, but consolidated all of the complex laws of Judaism into two core concepts that were simple to understand and didn't require any interpretation.

That was something that the Pharisees and Sadducees were having a problem with. They were so focused on the letter of the law (using Commandments and other laws as "rulebooks") that they were able to follow the letter of the law, but violate the spirit and intent of it.

  • 11.29.2006 10:50 AM PDT
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I think maybe he is saying that there should also be specific punishments in place for laws broken. Like every person breaking law #1 will be banned for 1 week.
I believe thought that this wouldn't work well for the ninjas. Because each individual situation calls for (sometimes) a different reaction. Things aren't always black and white in these forums....sometimes they are gray...and sometimes they are kind of an off white/gray/blue which I call waylue......uh...
anyway.
It would also take away the personalities of each ninja. See Recon might only ban an offender for a week wheras N0F might do if for like 2 months. It's a fun game...you never know how long you'll be banned.

Don't take away the fun game.

things said in this post relating to forum ninjas do not necessarily reflect the ideations/feeling of this poster. all responsibilities and fallout go to his wife for making him this way.

[Edited on 11/29/2006]

  • 11.29.2006 10:55 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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The system currently in place is fine.. Giving specific punishments is bad. Each moderator has different standards, but to a point. Some moderators tolerate more flaming than others. Rulebook or not, Recon might not care about a guy telling someone else to go jump off a bridge and hang themselves...

Whereas Toast will ban you for mentioning bridges.

... Actually, I think I don't have a point anymore. ..

Oh, ok, I remember now. Rulebook or not, 2 moderators will give more leniency than others.

  • 11.29.2006 11:30 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Well, this would lead me back to my "Clarity" comment.

This is what I think should happen. Instead of having "Welcome to Forum, Please Read Before Posting", we should have a thread called "FORUM RULES.

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. No fancy symbols, no introduction. One should be in EVERY forum, and not change them amongst forums, such as Halo 3's rules are incredibly different than the rest of the forums, and seem as though they just gave a quick "No doubt you come straight here, so here's a brief set of rules. This is a bad way to do it, in my opinion, but I do realize the point of doing it and all.

Said "FORUM RULES" threads should contain this, and only this:
Forum Rules:

1. DO NOT advertise your chapter here. Use The Classifieds for that. All threads not following this rule will be locked, and repeat offenders, blacklisted.

2. No petitions. All threads not following this rule will be locked, and repeat offenders, blacklisted.

3. Do not link to adult content or to sites that contain information on any type of software piracy. Do not discuss these topics, either. Breaking this rule is grounds for being blacklisted immediately.

4. No spam. No discussions about spam. Read on through this thread for more information about spam. Spammers will be warned. If they do not desist, they will be blacklisted.

5. Impersonating forum moderators and/or bungie employees is strictly prohibited. Do not break this rule. You will be banned. No warning will be issued.

6. No bad jokes.

7. Seven is darker.

8. Bumping is illegal. Breaking this law has high consequences. Such as but not limited to: assignation by ninja, hippo licking, and/or complete forum thread annihilation. Or we will most likely just lock your topic. Don't bump!

9. Xbox hacking/modding discussions will not be permitted on any of the bungie.net forums. Breaking of this rule is grounds for being blacklisted.

10. Don't Flame each other. Use your manners and common sense. If you disagree with someone, do so gracefully. Repeat flamers will be blacklisted.

11. Noob, Newbie, N00b, and any other variants on the word newb are hereby banned from use on this forum. Any user who violates this rule will be put to death.
[NOTE: THIS RULE (11) IS RARELY ENFORCED]
12. No political commentary of any kind will be tolerated on the forums. These kinds of conversations almost always devolve into insult contests. Threads breaking this rule will be locked. Repeat offenders will be blacklisted.

13. In the course of the large beta test program Bungie is conducting on Halo 2, it is inevitable that some jerk will take pictures of the game and sneak them onto the internet. Considering that these images, or any information that is released with Bungie's expressed consent is considered a breach of the responsible party's nondisclosure agreement, users found discussing these materials may find their posts deleted without warning. Further incursions, such as the posting of or linking to these pieces of information may result in that user's account being blacklisted. To make it simple: Do not post links to or discuss leaked beta information and images.
Rule 13 is no longer required. It should be deleted from ALL rule threads, or changed to suit Halo 3's current status of secrecy.14. Do not create threads directed at single users. This is what the PM system is for. On a similar note, do not create threads to express your dislike of other users, even if they are spammers or flamers. This breaks both this rule and rule #10, which means double trouble for the person that does it. If you believe a user is a problem for the forums, message a moderator. Users breaking this rule will have their thread locked, and will most likely be blacklisted.Now, I believe this rule should be changed some. Perhaps adding a "(Posting of montages is acceptable, as long as it's not saying 'This person is awful, look!'" Or something along those lines.

15. Please post in English. We do understand that other members may not be English-speaking, but for the purposes of monitoring threads, and since this is an English-run board, moderators must be able to read what you write. The same goes for proper grammar. If a moderator cannot read a thread, due to it being in a foreign language or it's too incomprehensible, the thread will be locked. No questions asked.
Yes, I understand that some guy who doesn't understand English may have a problem reading this rule, but then again, there are plenty of foreign Halo boards where they do speak other languages.16. Do not post with negative intent. If we find that your actions are done with a negative intent towards the forums, or other members, we will blacklist you on the spot. By negative intent we mean doing things to intentionally disrupt or attack the forums, members, or the moderators of the forums. The punishment for a violation of this type will vary based on the judgment of the moderators. While we do reserve the right to use this type of blacklist, we will try to refrain from its usage unless the problem requires it. So tread softly little trolls or we will be forced to unleash the ninjas.

There are plenty of more rules I could list, but I mean only a brain damaged monkey would break them. Use common sense and your very best online etiquette. Read the Bungie.net term s of use and code of conduct for more specific Bungie.net dos and donts.

Suggestions:

Use a spell checker to check your posts for misspellings. There's no point in making a forum topic if we can't understand it because of multiple spelling errors.

Don't use stupid abbreviations. (Example: Your = ur, You = u, Are = r, I = EYE, one = 1)


Now, note how every rule states it's consequences. No one is left with a "Oh, I don't understand the consequence of breaking this rule!"

So, that wraps up my idea for the RULE threads..

Edit: I threw in the Negative Intent rule.. Slightly modified.

[Edited on 11/29/2006]

  • 11.29.2006 12:27 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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That could be done...

Adult content:
* Well, the word is blocked, but I think you all know the P word.
* Disturbing Images
* Real-life Violence

Those basically say it all.

The best example of trolling is when someone goes to the Halo 3 forum and posts "HALO 3 IS GOING TO SUCK", just to get people angry. It also qualifies under "Negative Intent". I've always imagined it's like the Troll under the bridge, trying to get the goats, so he uses tactics that will make them come out.

About the English rule.. A discussion within a foreign post, showing all the confusion among everyone, led me to write that one.

[Edited on 11/29/2006]

  • 11.29.2006 12:44 PM PDT

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Posted by: Logical Thinking
Posted by: SS_Zag1
That could be done...

Adult content:
* Well, the word is blocked, but I think you all know the P word.
* Disturbing Images
* Real-life Violence

Those basically say it all.


It took you 20 seconds to do that? So lets see here... 15 rules, 20 seconds each... thats 5 minuites to clairify ALL of the rules... so why cant they just go ahead and do that?


They could.. It's all a matter of time, but I'm not sure who wants to spend said time doing that.

(By the way, I edited my post after you replied and added some things)

You're also missing the fact that it's really 5 minutes + the time it takes to remove parts of threads, delete some entirely, and put up new threads in each forum titled "FORUM RULES".

[Edited on 11/29/2006]

  • 11.29.2006 12:48 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Your definition is also correct.

People that intentionally sit around and disagree with people to start fights, are trolls.

  • 11.29.2006 1:13 PM PDT
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Rulebook? Isn't that just a TOS? (Terms of service), which is already stickied on every forum?

  • 11.29.2006 1:16 PM PDT
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I still think my idea should be given a try:

Replace the Rules thread with "HOW TO BECOME A MOD!!" or something like that, then start off by saying.

"This is how to become a super cool moderator:

(Rules)

Follow these and you might be called upon! Zomg!"

  • 11.29.2006 1:31 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Haven't all of these points and then some been covered in the "Who wants to create a Bungie.net Constitution?" thread?

  • 11.29.2006 1:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: twinkiemaker
Haven't all of these points and then some been covered in the "Who wants to create a Bungie.net Constitution?" thread?


Probably, but this is the Septagon.

  • 11.29.2006 1:45 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I think the "common sense" rule would be all the explanation anyone would need. Common sense would dictate that Halo is "Mature" (as a recommendation), not "Adult." Common sense would dictate that if someone has made a thread, making a copy of that thread would be a bad thing, since it clutters up the forums. You don't need to know the exact definition for spam to know that copying another person's thread or making multiple posts that contribute nothing to discussion are not allowed.

  • 11.29.2006 2:22 PM PDT
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Logical, that got put into place a few months ago when, if I am not mistaken was when the Join Dates were removed. If you do not believe me, look here.


I agree with many points in this thread. I honestly believe that a "rule book" would not be read. It would be set aside and forgot about like the code of conduct, terms of use, and many of the stickies. I do agree however, with the "Forum Rules" thread that could be stickied. Although this would take many man hours and not many mods have that kind of time on their hands. Usually the mods are only on for a few minutes and then are done with the forums, till they get a free moment.

[Edited on 11/29/2006]

  • 11.29.2006 2:47 PM PDT

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