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This topic has moved here: Subject: Combat devolved? A poll to gauge what fans think about a small issue.
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Subject: Combat devolved? A poll to gauge what fans think about a small issue.
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Posted by: Prohass

One of my favourite modes was to get a bunch of mates over for split-screen and LAN, and King Of The Hill Bloodgultch, with a stationary hill. Vehicles would collect around the Hill, creating a maelstrom of grinding metal and chaos. I fear this feature that I love, will be impossible in Halo 2 multiplayer. While I have respect for you multiplayer experience, a focus on frantic LIVE play means many features offline players have grown to love seem to be disappearing. I know for a fact that I will get over this when playing Halo 2, but it would still be nice to have the option.

Also, on a final 'I have to much time on my hands, and after this I will be complaining to cereal companies about spelling mistakes on their boxes' note, I hope the fun of putting MC on 400% shields, and restricting the weapons to rockets will not be lost with the tracker. I understand that this is not a fire and forget system, and is necessary with the introduction of airborne vehicles in multiplayer, but it will make good old fashioned rocket matches a thing of the past. Again, I don’t want to get rid of this system (and of course I know you wouldn't), just an option.


First, your one type of KOTH game is not worth bungie making the consideration, and Second, the E3 demo showed vehicle tracking not individual tracking, unless i missed something?

no offence...........

  • 05.22.2004 10:11 PM PDT

[color=red]CitizenKane, you make a lot of very good points.[/color]
Just this afternoon I was finishing The Maw on Legendary and it occured to me, "what would I do if my warthog were destructible and I had to drive the length of the ship through all kinds of hell?" I love that run, and I can only think that, if you could get your 'hog through to the last bit of the ship, when it hits that [color=blue]drrrrrrrrrrrrop (thank you, Beastie Boys)[/color], it's toast. If the 'hogs're going to be destructible, when the 'hog lands, Goodbye, shocks, frame, tires (the hubcaps would be looong gone by then), etcetera, etcetera, etc. But that isn't the case in Halo, and in Halo 2 there might be nothing like The Maw run.
[color=orange]What Halo 2 will likely teach all of us is to play an entirely new way, both in Campaign and Multiplayer.[/color]
Having said that, I have to add to my last post that I, too, would not mind the option of turning on and off the various things in the game (destructibilty, rocket tracking, whatever). Since there are so many options for varied gameplay in Halo's MP, I don't see how difficult it will be for Bungie to make it an option in Halo 2 MP. Maybe not in Campaign, to "keep it real," as it were, but in MP I like to think they'll give us every option.
[color=green]Thanks for making me think about the game in a new way.[/color]

  • 05.22.2004 10:19 PM PDT
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Dang. I can't wait for destructible vehicles.

We haven't been able to use the Warthog or the Scorpion in more then a year. The moment you pop into a Warthog the bullets from the pistols just start flying and you're dead before you hit the gas pedal.

The truth is. In halo1 you had destructible vehicles, only they had infinite health. That's why the ghost ruled over the other vehicles. The Ghost took the damage instead of you.

The Warthog and Scorpion however were indestructible. You took the damage instead of them. Half a clip from the pistol to your hubcap and you -in the driver seat- died.

  • 05.22.2004 10:32 PM PDT
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Really. Games are suppose to improve upon themselves and get better.

No one wants the same old crap over and over. We want to experience the ... unexperienced.

Oh, how corny was that now? Lol.

  • 05.22.2004 11:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: serpx
Really. Games are suppose to improve upon themselves and get better.

No one wants the same old crap over and over. We want to experience the ... unexperienced.

I have to agree with you........... change is good. Bungie knows what they are doing.

  • 05.22.2004 11:24 PM PDT

Posted by: serpx
Really. Games are suppose to improve upon themselves and get better.

No one wants the same old crap over and over. We want to experience the ... unexperienced.

Oh, how corny was that now? Lol.



Not too corny.
Which would you prefer, though? To have destructible vehicles in MP with or without the option to turn off the damage? Or would you prefer never to be given a choice?

  • 05.22.2004 11:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Frogwart
Not too corny.
Which would you prefer, though? To have destructible vehicles in MP with or without the option to turn off the damage? Or would you prefer never to be given a choice?


I think I would prefer destructable vehicles, it seems too many people shy away from using all the vehicles in MP games, afraid of some kind of unfair advantage. I played a Halo PC game the other day in BG, and some dude got all pissed when I got in the Banshee and blew his butt off the map. This might encourage having all vehicles in more games. Any thoughts????

  • 05.22.2004 11:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Perhaps it's just my opinion, but if you don't want anything more than the Halo experience, perhaps you shouldn't play anything besides Halo 1? I mean, this is a NEW game, so you should stop freaking out and let Bungie try these new things. It's the same people that brought you the first Halo, what do you have to be afraid of?


He's got a point. I mean, Halo emphasized the two weapon system that's brought more of a strategic value. The weapons themselves have their downsides and upsides (aside from a weapon that I need not mention, since you guys can probably guess what it is), along with many other things that I'm sure you guys know. What I think is that you guys need to move from out of your comfort zones and throw yourselves into that exploding warthog until you're comfortable with the idea of destructable vehicles and tracking rockets. Besides, it's Bungie that's making the game, so you don't have to worry that much about balance issues, since, in my opinion, have done for the most part a good job with Halo, aside from a few details. :-)

  • 05.22.2004 11:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lovell
He's got a point. I mean, Halo emphasized the two weapon system that's brought more of a strategic value. The weapons themselves have their downsides and upsides (aside from a weapon that I need not mention, since you guys can probably guess what it is), along with many other things that I'm sure you guys know. What I think is that you guys need to move from out of your comfort zones and throw yourselves into that exploding warthog until you're comfortable with the idea of destructable vehicles and tracking rockets. Besides, it's Bungie that's making the game, so you don't have to worry that much about balance issues, since, in my opinion, have done for the most part a good job with Halo, aside from a few details. :-)

Now, why can't I come up with an answer like that, well said, well done.

  • 05.22.2004 11:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Lovell
Halo emphasized the two weapon system that's brought more of a strategic value. The weapons themselves have their downsides and upsides (aside from a weapon that I need not mention, since you guys can probably guess what it is), along with many other things that I'm sure you guys know. What I think is that you guys need to move from out of your comfort zones and throw yourselves into that exploding warthog until you're comfortable with the idea of destructable vehicles and tracking rockets. Besides, it's Bungie that's making the game, so you don't have to worry that much about balance issues, since, in my opinion, have done for the most part a good job with Halo, aside from a few details. :-)


Maybe it appears I'm riding the fence on this, and I don't mean to give that impression.
If I had one choice only, I'd go destructible and rocket-tracking, pure and simple. I totally trust Bungie to make a game that will kick my ass, as they did with Halo, which was the single reason I've bought two Xboxes in the last two years. Other games entertained me, but Halo consistently thrills me and is never boring.

In playing Halo today, I thought constantly about how I would have to improve my 'hoggin' skills when playing Halo 2. I pride myself on my abilities behind the wheel, and I'm a little afraid of having my ride blown apart around me, but I'm excited as hell by the idea, too.
I've all ready suggested to some friends that the way to capitalize on this new feature will be with kamikaze runs--one or two men in the 'hog riding into the enemy's base, one man on the outside (but still in sight of the 'hog) with a rocket launcher. Drive in, jump out (or follow the enemies as they try and run), get blasted by a rocket and see all the enemies fly!
I love being challenged in a game, and I think Halo 2 will be so full of challenges, both in Campaign and MP, I won't want to play any other games (sorry Doom 3, sorry Half-Life 2) the rest of this and most of next year. I doubt Bungie will prove me wrong.

The topic boils down to something Lovell (among others) touched on--using strategy. Yes, your ride is susceptible to attack, and can become a rolling gas can, but that also means you have the opportunity to improve yourself and become a better player, maybe even a player who can keep his 'hog (or whatever vehicle) safe for an entire MP game. That is, if you choose to rise to the challange.


  • 05.23.2004 12:10 AM PDT
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Hey not to rain on your parade, I think you bring up a very valid point, but you have to remember, this isn't going to be Halo 1. The people at bungie are striving to achive a certain level of reality in Halo 2. There are benifits from Halo 1, but you have to think of how much more strategy and skill it will take to use destructable vehicles. There are so many benefits from this that it could really lead to a lot better gameplay and more replay value. It just might take a lil getting used to.

  • 05.23.2004 12:13 AM PDT

True words, CS, and I see you're new here! Welcome to Bungie.net!

  • 05.23.2004 12:15 AM PDT
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well, the option would be a good thing for the rockets/destructible vehicles, but look on the other hand- there are going to be a massssssive amount of weapons...if you have the slightest bit of a sniper skill, and you see the gartanic log of a rocket launcher sitting on an enemy's shoulders, pop a piece of lead in his head and call it a day. simple as that. when playing ctf on a level such as zanzibar, and you try to make a getaway in a vehicle, you get another teammate make an attempt to keep people AWAY from the sniper/rocket launcher areas.. it wont be cheesy at all, there are ways around pretty much anything with simple strategy. For the destruction of the vehicles, I am a HUGE fan of doing countless hog flips, ghost ramps, etc. it will only increase the amount of fun when your hog is incredibly gimping, you blow it to little bits and its hunk of -blam!- body is sitting there in a heap, only to have a fresh hog respawn a little ways down the beach! think of the rubble piles we are going to be launching...it's going to be great.

  • 05.23.2004 12:17 AM PDT
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I don't think anyone mentioned the fact that destructable vehicles really adds an element of realism to the game, and this is gonna make stratagy more important, as well as team work. I really see everything Bunige is doing to be an improvement. GO BUNGIE!

  • 05.23.2004 12:21 AM PDT
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I TRUST THE GODS OF THE MIGHTY BUNGIE...THEY KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEY'RE DOING! I MEAN THEY TEST AND TEST FOR 5000+ HOURS...YES 5000 NOT 500, 5000. I THINK THEY KNOW IF IT WORKS OR NOT. BTW IF SOMEONE SAID THIS ALREADY IM SRY I DIDNT READ ALL THE POSTS....

[Edited on 5/23/2004 12:25:52 AM]

  • 05.23.2004 12:24 AM PDT
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I TRUST THE GODS OF THE MIGHTY BUNGIE...THEY KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEY'RE DOING! I MEAN THEY TEST AND TEST FOR 5000+ HOURS...YES 5000 NOT 500, 5000. I THINK THEY KNOW IF IT WORKS OR NOT. BTW IF SOMEONE SAID THIS ALREADY IM SRY I DIDNT READ ALL THE POSTS....
Shhh! Everybody be quiet, hes using Caps! Everyone, gather round and listen in awe, for he who uses caps, is all-knowing and omnipotent.

  • 05.23.2004 12:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: Nutty Monkey
I TRUST THE GODS OF THE MIGHTY BUNGIE


When I read that, I laughed my head off because then I saw your avatar and thought, "Heh, we have a converted Elite now, thanks to Bungie!" :-D

Hopefully you guys will get a kick out of Halo 2 when it comes out! I know I will. ;-)

  • 05.23.2004 12:32 AM PDT
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Yah they should definatly keep the vehicle damage on, in the e3 video the warthog respawns after a few seconds, so 5 minutes into a game, you'd be driving around and there would be smoldering vehicle debri (forgive spelling) and mangled aircraft everywhere, that would add a nice touch to realizm and intensity in my opinion!

  • 05.23.2004 7:08 AM PDT
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i say vehicle damage and rocket homing are not optional they have to be in there because if you fire a rocket using the new feature that person has to find where ever the vehicle spwans and then u have the advantage of killing them b4 they get there, they get mad and forget about the vehicle.


(i know it may not make sence but thats what i think)

  • 05.23.2004 7:16 AM PDT
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The option would be nice, but if it's not there, oh well. I would personally want to play with vehicle damage anyway so that people can't just infinitely use vehicles that are indestructible. Destructible vehicles will add a new danger when you're trying to make a quick getaway in your vehicle on CTF. Another thing, if you're using the ghost and you're taking heavy fire, just boost it and you'll probably get away without getting blown to bits (unless you're going away from your opponent in a straight line). As for the warthog, it has a rocket launcher, so unless the person shooting you is far away, you'll probably be able to blow them up before you die.

  • 05.23.2004 7:25 AM PDT
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Bungie has gone to extremes to make Halo seem realistic, not like one of the sci-fi flicks you see on SF Channel. Think, in the year 2552, there could be a Covenant of alien species with light bending technology (the U.S. military is developing primitive active camoflauge right now; not that it's anywhere near as effective as that of the Covenant). There could be a device called the Shaw-Fujikawa Slipspace Generator. There could be a planetary government. There could be energy shields. There could be almost anything, things we can't even think of!

Think back 500 years, 1504. Christopher Columbus had just discovered the New World (he thought it was the Far East), where many of us are today. They had no concept of electricity, which is quite necessary today. They also could not have had the concept of a computer, not even Babbage's Adding Machine. Military tactics were Napoleonic (even though he wasn't born yet), two factions met and stood in tightly packed lines, making an easy target (even though "advanced" then was matchlock pistols [I'm not sure those were even around then]).

The point is, a lot can happen in 500 years. Vehicles today would most certainly take damage from an AR. We even have smart missles (i.e., Tomahawk cruise missles). The point is, the technology of rocket tracking will most likely be obsolete in 2552. Heck, projectiles will probably be obsolete in 500 years. The point is, Bungie is trying to make the Halo series within the boundaries of what they think will be available in 2552.

So surely vehicles will take damage and rockets will track their targets (although I think that elevation will mess up the rockets, e.g., go up a hill and down it before the rocket does and it'll probably smack into it, even though I'm sure that Earth technology will exceed that in 2552, if we're still around).

[/intelligent babble]

  • 05.23.2004 7:48 AM PDT

I don't think anyone would dispute those points, jhbrewer.
Some folks would just like to have their Halo 2 experience be more like their Halo experiences are. Which, unless Bungie releases Halo itself in a Halo 2 box, they cannot be.

  • 05.23.2004 12:19 PM PDT

SB-117

Some people have complained about the vehicle damage elimating the legendary warthog jump but I dont know what they're talking about. So? it'll fry yeah- but it doesnt mean it wont fly! Plus these fusion cores sound mighty good! Warthog jump will be even better in halo2! Why would bungie take out a cool side game? Vehicle damage therefore should not have an off button because that would suck.

  • 05.23.2004 12:31 PM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Posted by: Shishka
Perhaps it's just my opinion, but if you don't want anything more than the Halo experience, perhaps you shouldn't play anything besides Halo 1? I mean, this is a NEW game, so you should stop freaking out and let Bungie try these new things. It's the same people that brought you the first Halo, what do you have to be afraid of?


He's right. If you want rcket only matches with 400% health, play the first Halo. I am looking forward to these kick ass new changes.

  • 05.23.2004 12:36 PM PDT
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I think vehical damage sould be an [color=orange] optional [/color] setting, personally i'd leave it on cuz I hate it SOOOOO much being mowed down when I can [color=red] barely kill the friggen driver. [/color]

  • 05.23.2004 12:38 PM PDT

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