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Subject: Combat devolved? A poll to gauge what fans think about a small issue.
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I could care less because it will most likely have everything that Halo had it will just all be improved and I think that vehicle destruction is an excellent Idea because how many of you in multiplayer are in the tank and have been killed because of some freak with a pistol now there is no more of that I believe it will lead to a much funner game with destroyable vehicles I mean it does not mean that they won't respawn in MP and lock missles don't follow you that far they follow you in a wide arc so you can avoid getting hit if you make sharp turns. so I don't think it matters and if you want it like the old times then play the original that is all there is to it I'm absolutly sure that, that stuff will be optional all I have to say is don't worry about it. Just wait til Nov. 9 there is absolutly no reason to get this disappointed this early in the game.

  • 05.23.2004 1:05 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

You said your sick of getting mowed down by drivers you cant kill; well thats where the vehicle boarding will come in lol. I dunno i thinbk it will all even out in the end. Bungies never let me down, so why start now?

[Edited on 5/23/2004 1:06:42 PM]

  • 05.23.2004 1:05 PM PDT
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Escape will make me God.

# Three main points you're not thinking about: Rockets are not a 'sure kill' weapon this time around. If you saw the E3 video you'd know that the warthog took about 3 rockets to bring it down. Rockets will disable vehicles, like they should, but that doesn't mean the driver or the vehicle is out of action. As a matter of fact, less rocket power means that fighting people with 'em won't be so one sided. The rocket now is much more balanced.
# It's 2552, why would the chief be forced to use dumbfire rockets? I guess still using ballistics at all is fairly unlikely, but we shall let that slide.
# You're forgetting about the air power that's going to be present in Halo2. I know a lot of LIVE players are low-watt bulbs, but if you run into a banshee pilot with half a brain you will NEVER hit him with a dumbfire rocket. HaloPC pilots have a huge advantage if they're smart enough not to fly into your face. Homing rockets, aside from the LAAG or a turret would be infantry's only chance against airpower.


Those are all incredibly valid points. I had essentially the same ideas in mind. The vehicles will be destructible, but not just one rocket or grenade is going to be able to take them out. A player should be able to get some fair use out of their vehicle unless it's either A) hi-jacked or B) hit by a well-placed rocket or fusion core. The tracking rockets in the video did not appear to aim for a critical portion of the hog. It was more of a disabling shot than a destructive one.

As for the homing rockets, well, you need not use the homing feature if you really want to challenge yourself with a shot. It does not track all of the time - only when zoomed in. I am sure that a lot of seasoned Halo veterans would be able to take out a hog or a ghost with a well-placed rocket blast. There are a few distanced shots where tracking would become useful, however. Not to mention that there probably will be ways to avoid a tracking rocket. The homing pattern could be based on heat rather than motion. Detonating a tracking rocket could be as simple as firing a decoy rocket from the hog. As for the ghost, I can see a well-placed boost being enough to send an incoming rocket straight into a wall. Scipio is right about tracking rockets probably being most useful against a Banshee. Ever tried to take out a Banshee in Halo PC with anything other than a head-on rocket blast? It can prove to be particularly frustrating due to lag combined with the speed of a rocket's trajectory.

You'll want these features. Trust me. Bungie has painstakingly implemented destructible vehicles and tracking rockets to offset any balance issues inherent in the original Halo. I trust their judgement on this one. Admittedly, turning off vehicle damage would be a great option to have. Leaving it on just makes the potential for chaos that much higher. I like being surprised by the amount of implausible situations which have arisen from Halo's physics engine. Halo 2 will be soooo much crazier.

[Edited on 5/23/2004 1:39:19 PM]

  • 05.23.2004 1:33 PM PDT
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i like eggs

  • 05.23.2004 3:34 PM PDT
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I agree entirely with Prohass. If you like vehicle damage and homing rockets, then fine. You never have to switch it off. But for the people who don't delight on it as much, what possible harm could the option of switching these features 'off' do? And plus, having indestructible vehicles will create so much more mayhem and fun because people will have the courage to do daring stunts that they otherwise would not even think of if the vehicle they were riding was in any way destructible.

Options don't hurt, not having them does.

  • 05.23.2004 3:49 PM PDT
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Major Silva, basically exactly what Im trying to get across. Now I dont know how hard it would be to include an option, but I dont think they'd need to balance and tweek, mainly because it would be optional, and most people wouldn't use it in LIVE, it'd mainly be an offline thing. There is no harm in including the option, it could only be a good thing. So I dont see why people would be opposed to it.

I have experienced the same sort of adverse reaction to bots in the past, and while I can understand that because many suspect it would prolong the release of the game, other than that I see no reason to hate something you could just turn on or off.

People often say you cant please everyone, my point being, with the option of vehicle damage in multiplayer, you could.

[Edited on 5/24/2004 2:54:40 AM]

  • 05.24.2004 2:39 AM PDT
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i think bots would be good, and if there is an option like probably almost everygame there is no disadvantages if u simply dont want bots on turn them off and stop complaining

  • 05.24.2004 2:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: Frogwart
You, nor I, nor anyone else on these forums, are sheep.


Hey! I think you should ask first! And besides, sheep aren't [i] that [i] bad... so you leave them alone!

And no, I'm not from New Zealand...

  • 05.24.2004 3:27 AM PDT
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i myself are worried that they are doing too much to halo 2. as of now it looks like its going to be a completly different game. which is more likely than not a good thing. but its impossible for halo2 to be a bad game. i mean halo is the reason i bought an xbox.

  • 05.24.2004 12:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: PANYK
i myself are worried that they are doing too much to halo 2. as of now it looks like its going to be a completly different game. which is more likely than not a good thing. but its impossible for halo2 to be a bad game. i mean halo is the reason i bought an xbox.


I actually feel completely opposite. I want Halo 2 to be a completely different game. If I wanted to just play Halo 1... i'd play Halo 1. Change is good, especially with Bungie at the helm.

I don't think options to toggle vehicle damage or rocket tracking are necessary. In fact, I think they will fix problems that were present in Halo 1. And we haven't even played it yet... I bet after playing Halo 2 for a bit, these things will become totally natural and we'll forget all about it.

  • 05.24.2004 12:36 PM PDT
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How about bungie lets one turn these on or off? I mean would it be that hard to do? Allows for the "classic" halo feel for those who wish it.

  • 05.24.2004 1:06 PM PDT

if there is an option to turn them off, then there would need to be an indicator of that in the game description before joining the game. i don't want to enter a game with settings about which i am unaware.

  • 05.24.2004 1:23 PM PDT
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Well you could make a room that's Vehicle Damage On and whatnot. And plus, to whoever is saying that if you wanted the 'old Halo feel' you could just play Halo, then let me point out a few things:

First, Halo does not have XBox Live. That alone is a very important point.

Second, vehicles, weapons, and other features.

Thirdly, graphics, performance, levels, campaign.

Like I said before, options don't hurt, not having them does.

[Edited on 5/24/2004 4:32:10 PM]

  • 05.24.2004 4:31 PM PDT
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As much as I'd love it to be optional, it just doesnt seem like its gonna happen. Ah well. Its not that im against vehicle damage, im just for more styles of play, and making it optional would open up varied opportunities for different styles of play.

[Edited on 5/24/2004 11:22:55 PM]

  • 05.24.2004 11:14 PM PDT
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Wait a second, all you have to do is use a pistol/battle rifle to take out a banshee....it's actually quicker too and can be done while it's flyin in non-linear paths.

Not sure about auto-tracking yet, but vehicle damage is a must. Toggles are good too.

  • 05.25.2004 12:11 AM PDT
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I think we need everything

  • 05.25.2004 12:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: NightPotato
yeah... it would be nice to have the classic rules with the new weapons, teams, levels ect.
Yeah i will miss the mp levels of the original halo when halo2 comes out

  • 05.25.2004 1:45 PM PDT
Subject: Combat devolved? A poll to gauge what fans think about a small issue.
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Poll: Your opinions on vehicle damage and rocket homing; please read post...  [closed]
They should both be included.:  40%
(88 Votes)
Include both, but optional in multiplayer.:  39%
(85 Votes)
Vehicles Damage only should be optional.:  8%
(18 Votes)
Rocket homing only should be optional.:  5%
(12 Votes)
Niether should be included:  1%
(3 Votes)
Opinions and concerns of fans are invalid:  6%
(13 Votes)
Total Votes: 219

The first part of this post is an email I sent to bungie, the second section will be a question, asking what your opinions are on the 2 issues I have raised in the email. My aim for this post is that a cohesive and concise argument will hopefully provide a collection of Bungie's arguably most hardcore fans opinions. Bungie aren’t idiots, so in no way am I trying to say that Bungie is wrong, I am just interested to see everyone else’s opinions (in one topic, not 50), in the hope that Bungie will remark upon this topic.

The email I sent:

The subtle and sublime crafting that Halo 2 is receiving constantly fills me with awe. But as much as a Halo 2 evolves, I find myself, like any panicky fan, clutching to the ways of old, the ways of Halo 1. I'll try and word this in a way that makes me come off less like a grammatically challenged rabid '5N1P3R' and more like a genuine fan, voicing a genuine opinion. I am pleased that you have at least considered bots as an option for those unable to connect to LIVE, and for those who love their split-screen action. I interpreted this as a very real respect for the 'screams' of fans.

As such, I decided to do a little screaming of my own. There are many reasons that have kept me and my mates playing Halo for so long, and as amazingly polished and awesome vehicle damage looks, I still would love it if you considered having an option to turn it off in multiplayer. I'm no programmer, and I have no idea what this would entail in terms of time and money. But if it is possible to at least consider it as an option in multiplayer, I, and many other fans, would greatly appreciate it. The ability to choose 2 completely different types of multiplayer gaming would be phenomenal. One of my favourite modes was to get a bunch of mates over for split-screen and LAN, and King Of The Hill Bloodgultch, with a stationary hill. Vehicles would collect around the Hill, creating a maelstrom of grinding metal and chaos. I fear this feature that I love, will be impossible in Halo 2 multiplayer. While I have respect for you multiplayer experience, a focus on frantic LIVE play means many features offline players have grown to love seem to be disappearing. I know for a fact that I will get over this when playing Halo 2, but it would still be nice to have the option.

Also, on a final 'I have to much time on my hands, and after this I will be complaining to cereal companies about spelling mistakes on their boxes' note, I hope the fun of putting MC on 400% shields, and restricting the weapons to rockets will not be lost with the tracker. I understand that this is not a fire and forget system, and is necessary with the introduction of airborne vehicles in multiplayer, but it will make good old fashioned rocket matches a thing of the past. Again, I don’t want to get rid of this system (and of course I know you wouldn't), just an option.

What I loved about Halo 1s multiplayer was customisation and a plethora of options, if Halo 2 provides this, to the extent I'm describing, it would last me as long as Halo 1 has, which is running as a type this, with a few mates blasting away.

The second section of this post, my question to you, fellow fans:

Now what are your opinions, on these issues, on whether people should have any say at all, given that nobody has played the game, and on whether Bungie should or should not genuinly consider the opinions, fears and suggestions of fans?

I do hope this thread doesn't fade into obscurity, because then it would simply be another complaints topic to throw on the heap, and I dont see it as that.

  • 05.21.2004 7:41 PM PDT
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I read an article, I will try to find the link, where some of the people who tried out this feature said it was only really usefull at long range. This is a good balance, because unless you were really skilled with the RL, then you usually couldn't hit anyone from long range.

Edit: here it is The part im talking about is in the end of the 5th paragraph. It's not a bad read.

[Edited on 5/25/2004 2:05:27 PM]

  • 05.25.2004 1:57 PM PDT
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I honestly don't see what y'all are so woried about. Halo 2 is going to own you're soul. Besides, after Halo 2 comes out, Halo's not going to simply cease to exist. I meen hell, people are still playing clasic bungie games like Marathon a full 10 years after its release. Have you no faith? Just look at the track record:

Pathways Into Darkness: Kicked ass.
Marathon: Kicked ass.
Marathon 2: Kicked ass.
Marathon Infinity: Kicked ass.
Myth: Kicked ass.
Myth 2:Kicked ass.
Oni: Kicked ass.
Halo: Kicked ass.
Halo 2: WILL KICK ASS

  • 05.25.2004 2:11 PM PDT
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first time poster putting in my 2 cents. i agree that bungie knows best and what works and what balances out but like some have said, and i agree with is that options dont hurt. the destructable vehicals and homing rockets are awsome ideas but it would be cool to turn them off too, i mean what if you want to mess around and launch some hogs into the air and everytime you do you have to go and get another cause that one was destroyed? that would suck, but if you are playing and trying to win, the vehical being wrecked is awsome (or crappy depending on what side your on). then there is the warthog jump it would be a one per deal, but still cool. and i believe that they said that the warthog launch will still be in halo 2. wrap up. i have faith in bungie but the option, whether you leave it alone or turn it off would be a cool feature. sorry about spelling or if this is in the wrong place. thanks for reading.
nov. can't come soon enough!

[Edited on 5/25/2004 2:24:09 PM]

  • 05.25.2004 2:20 PM PDT
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i would definently include; i might like it sometimes and not the other times. but if its optional .. i would try to find the easy way outta it. instead with it not optional.. i found a problem; and instead of running from it i wil have to find a way to solve it

  • 06.02.2004 4:56 PM PDT
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options are good, i can never understand why ppl wount let options be in a game, options cater to all tastes allowing those who want them to have them and those who dont not to. this is a simaler issue to one of my ideas to include various types of units with diferent play stiles ON TOP OF the usual elites/spartans this would be an option my idea is here:

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=52594&view replies=true

options are good even if there not vary good ones at the vary least it could make one person happy without hurting the others. so i say yae to options

[Edited on 6/2/2004 5:07:20 PM]

  • 06.02.2004 5:07 PM PDT
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The smartest thing Bungie can do is make ALL features an option in multi-player. Like Energy Swords, damage to vehicles, jaking of vehicles, duel-wielding, auto-tracking, etc.

This would please ALL customers

  • 06.02.2004 5:14 PM PDT
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I had to say that opinions of fans are invalid. I've seen more games ruined because a bunch of fans thought something would be cool...then when it was released, everyone saw how horrible an idea the fans had. This is something I seriously don't want to see happen to Halo2. While I understand your point and to some degree agree with many of you, I just don't think we have any right saying what should and shouldn't be in the game. Bungie has been doing this for a far longer time than any of us and I'm sure that if they had a reason for changing things, it was justified for whatever reason.

  • 06.02.2004 5:17 PM PDT

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