- last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Different forum, but similar theme. Almost a year in between.
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=5630289
I hope that you can see what I mean?
PS: I know that no one is organizing or proposing a "save the underground" movement. It's not 100% the same, but the advice I mentioned then still applies now.
I agree with your post within the linked thread. However, if there were to be a type of system that you mentioned before in this thread. Then things may move a bit smoother.
Actually, I think that this is addressing a common problem and misconception of the purpose of this site. We've discussed it previously, and it seems that it's raising its head here are well.
The difficulty is that some visitors to this site are Bungie-fans (either new or historical) and some visitors are Bungie-customers. Neither is "better" or "worse", but they each have different expectations and desire different experiences. One is focused on the product and information about the product, the other is interested in the less tangible aspects of the community, the team, the culture and so on.
Certain parts of the site are there for either type of visitor. The front page for example contains current events and news. While some aspects of it may be confusing for certain visitors (for example, a customer could easily wonder what the big deal is about Mister Chief, or the Webmaster, or Marty's manservant) but those things are part of Bungie and the fans and the customers are going to hear about them.
But the rest of the site, that is different.
A customer is not going to visit (as part of their intended reason for visiting) the "meet the team" or "letters to the Webmaster", the 7th Column, or the historical sections. They are hitting the front page news related to Halo 2 and/or 3, maybe hitting a few of the forums, and that is it. They don't care about the Bungie Fan Community (generally) and they don't have to.
But a Bungie fan, they've read the "meet the team" page and know the Bungie employees by name and role. They understand and fear the Bungie Webmaster, they're part of the 7th Column, they read the front page and visit multiple forums. That's what they do as a fan, they participate in the community.
The idea of making different types of member accounts could address this as well another desired function. Many months ago (close to a few years) Sketch and Achronos mentioned that they were considering and thinking about a Karma (for lack of a better term) system that had the ability to "reward" and recognize positive, contributory and helpful members of the community. Ideas were tossed around, but the obvious pitfalls of elitism and "boosting" were also made clear.
However, if a method is found to make a member account more "worth having", then perhaps we have the ability to solve all 3 issues (fans/customers, rewarding positive members, restricting disruptive ones) with a single solution.
Let's look at the current two-tier system that we have. Someone can either visit as a guest (no Passport) or as a registered member. Guests can browse the front page, visit the forums, but they have VERY limited personal interaction with the site.
Registered members (with an MS Passport) have full-membership privs. They can post on the forums, create and join groups, and so on.
Perhaps it is time to consider a newer and more precise membership structure.
Guest - (no Passport) Can access the site, browse the main page and linked pages, read the public forums, learn about Bungie, their games, as well as their history and the fan community. The "Support Page" and (at this time) the "Halo 3" and "Halo 2 Vista" sections would be likely points of interest. This would be the typical "customer" visitor. They have played various Halo games and are interested in more. They are more interested in news and information about Halo 3, but have the ability to see that there is more here than a typical developer's site
Bungie Customer - (basic MS Passport) By creating a Bungie.Net account, this visitor can do anything that the previous visitor can and slightly more. They also have the ability to interact with the site at a certain level. Some forums related to current games are available for them to post in. New Mombasa, Halo 3 and The News would be available, but the ability to create new topics would be restricted (perhaps 1 per day) and a flood-control would also restrict/prevent rapid fire spamming. This would be the typical "involved customer". They actively play the Halo games, are discovering that there is a community and what that community has to offer. They are still interested in news and other information about Halo 3, but want to talk about the games they play and interact with other who play them too.
Bungie Gamer - (basic MS Passport with a linked, active and non-suspended Gamertag) This level of member can (as before) do anything that the previous member can do, and more. Because they have linked their gamertag, they also enjoy the added feature of viewing their stats and seeing their friends list online. In addition, they can now JOIN existing 7th Column Groups. Those groups can be clan-related, game-related, or any valid and existing part of the 7th column. They can visit and post in New Mombasa and Halo 3 (as with the previous level) but now have more lenient posting and topic creation privileges. Because they have a linked and non-suspended gamertag (no cheaters thank you) they can also take part in Optimatch, The Library, and The Classifieds at this time (the previous level's create/reply restrictions apply). This would be the typical "customer/fan". They actively play the Halo games, are part of the community and are benefiting from the offerings that it has. They can sample the 7th Column and offer their views in Optimatch (since they are valid players) and use the Classifieds to locate/recruit/advertise for others.
Bungie Game Fan - (MS Passport but with associated personal data (registered game, CD-code, or some method of verifying ID. Linked gamertag is an option, but not required) This level of member would have full access to the public forums and the 7th Column. Much like a standard member account today, they are able to create and join groups, create and post in the standard public forums. Any throttling of posts is set at the current level. This level of membership would be very much like what all typical members see today. Previous accounts would have to be grandfathered, but all new accounts would need to have that (as of yet unknown) form of ID verification that makes their account a "one time only" proposition. Non-console gamers could register using their CD-key, those with gamertags could also link.
Bungie FAN - (MS Passport and an account that has been recognized as a positive contributor and member of the fan community) This level of membership would be similar to a typical member today, but would additionally offer "hidden" content on the site. This content could be additional forums (where Bungie employees regularly visit and post), insider commentary and information, a sort of "group membership". Members at this level are in as a "one shot deal". If they abuse or misbehave while at this level, they can be warned, but if they are disciplined, they lose their benefits and the account cannot be "re-elevated" to enjoy those privileges. This one is the real "unknown". What benefits or perks would be attractive and reasonable? What would those members be allowed to see, and how would leaks and other potential risks be contained? More questions than answers, I am afraid.
Well, it's just an idea, and a long winded one I know. Plenty of problems with it, plenty of holes, and it depends on some sort of ID system that I don't know exists. It also depends on whether or not security on this site is flexible enough to allow for such tiers of access to forums and flood-control.
Like I said. Just an idea. I've really got no ego involved in it, so I am willing to discuss, clarify, and evolve it. But I am certainly not going to defend it.
I hate to bring up old ideas but it was the one that stood out. If this system were to be in place then most people would see the point in which thread should be posted where. This system would be more or less "baby steps" to being able to post within all of the forums. Gradually letting new members explore and gradually learning the rules. Intead of now where it is, "Here is the rules. Don't mess up." Although I believe a time limit and a post limit that obides by the rules should be attached. That way a certain member will have to be a member for X number of days and post X number of times that obide by the rules. As I said baby steps.
I linked to this post of yours Recon mainly because this is more or less the same situation but in a different light, so to speak. The problem is overzelous(sp?) new members not paying attention to the rules, nor the stickies. Not paying attention to the forum descriptions either. Yes, I know they are not all new members, but from what I have seen within the forums my past year here, I have noticed that it is the majority. I believe that to stop the "Decline" of the underground and all the other forums a system as such should be set into place. Members and New members will most likely be gradually told the rules. Spamming will dwindle(sp?) due to the waiting time and posting limit before being givin the chance to post in another thread.
Sorry if this sounds a bit repetative or if I changed the topic a bit