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Subject: An Apology

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

I do have to say that it takes a certain amount of humblness to swallow one's own pride to apologize, even on the Internet. Hopefully Shai this will reconcile any differences, if any, that may have occurred. Best of wishes with whatever you plan to do in your "long time" off.

  • 01.04.2007 11:32 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

I should probably just quote Pizza's post. Or impy's, but I wanted to make this my own response so...


At first, I thought this would just be a groveling for you to try and get a spot at the "friends and family" portion of the beta. However, after you stated you still hold your original opinion, and even though I disagree with that, you have gained my respect, Shai. You probably would have gained it sooner, but I never really got to know you. So I just wanted to let you know that I feel like I missed out on a great opportunity to meet a good person.

  • 01.05.2007 3:47 AM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

While it might be viewed as nice that Shai is apologising, let's not forget that it's doubly nice of him to do this because there's nothing to say sorry for in the first place.

The way this whole Beta thing is getting worked is a huge wind-up. Firstly because I'm situated in the U.K. means that I'm already at a handicap. Secondly, I will not buy Crackdown to gain a Beta invitation. Thirdly, 13,333 slots to the first people that register after playing 3 hours of Halo 2 on Live. What about the People that played Halo 2 religiously for a year and half? (please take time to check individual clan members there as well please, as the clan games are not even a quarter of it).

This is why I for one am pissed. Our whole clan should automatically qualify for a beta slot without having to follow pathetic and childish rules. I love Bungie because of Halo. I will not suck up in order to gain a slot, I will not act indifferently from the way I have on here for the past 3 years. As an active member of this site for a long time, and a huge participant in the playing of Halo 2 over Live, I believe I'm more than qualified to play this 'public' Halo 3 beta. It's the idea of some little brat getting in on it just because he snitches on people who double-post etc, while people like me and my clan have to just sit and look on youtube for gameplay videos. Without going any further, my feelings with the whole thing can be summed up in 2 words. Bitterly Dissapointing.

[Edited on 1/5/2007]

  • 01.05.2007 11:42 AM PDT

@trueunderdog

Chapter

Narwhallace Smithington: Gone, but not forgotten. Never approve of anything lil guy. <3
Furious George: The new -blam!-

Short and sweet: I wish more members on these boards were like you.

  • 01.05.2007 11:58 AM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Jay, I really don't understand why you have to take shai's apology as an invitation to moan some more.

This is a thread about Shai apologizing for his choice of actions, not his opinion. I am very glad he would do such a thing, but you seem to only want to debate about a fact that there is no need to debate about. A beta is not intended to be played by everyone who will end up playing the game. You really should never have expected to have a great chance at getting a spot. The second I heard about a public beta I thought it sounded cool, but I probably wouldn't be able to participate. I really don't care. I know I will get to play the game eventually.

Just like you say that you don't want a snitching little brat to get a beta spot and not yourself (and I am pretty sure you consider me one of those brats), why should you have any more right to a spot than any other member of B.net? Just because they may not have the same intellectual ability, and may not be as a central member of the community doesn't make them less a fan than you, or anyone else. Perhaps some little kid will get a spot over you, and you won't get one at all. Oh well, that's life; It's time to stop being a kid and expecting everything the way you want it. Life isn't fair.

My apologies to shai for taking the thread off-topic.

  • 01.05.2007 12:12 PM PDT
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Shai, you seem like a really nice guy.
It really is a shame that you'll be gone.
Why can't we all just get along?
Group hug, anyone?

  • 01.05.2007 12:41 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

My point is that Bungie is a BIG business. I've no need to mention who they're owned by, but usually businesses look after their customers.

Let me put it another (and rather strange) way. Tom Cruise. I hate the guy, can't stand him. I think his films are rubbish, and don't think he deserves the credit he gets. However, millions of other people disagree with me. A large number of his fans (and just random people who happen to be there) sometimes line the streets (in London atleast) to see him at one of his film premiers. So what does he do? He spends on average, 5 hours on the red-carpet making sure the huge majority of them go home with autographs, pictures, answer-phone greetings, etc etc. But before he does all that, he see's to his loyal fans first. The one's who brought banners, wear his t-shirts. Then he goes to all the rest. Well I like to see myself as one of those loyal fans, only to Halo. I have the T-shirt. I have all the action figures. I have all the books. I have multiple copies of both games. So I hope you can understand why I (and mainy more) feel upset over this.

As for Hijacking Shai's thread, I don't believe I have. The thing that you don't realise is that it's people that are like you Rainman that force all the older and much wiser members (please don't include me in that by the way) into the groups to escape being branded by the likes of you. I've said enough.

  • 01.05.2007 12:45 PM PDT

Posted by: impurity
I'm wearing clean underwear.
Liar!

I'll be seeing you Shai. :-)

  • 01.05.2007 1:02 PM PDT

Red vs. Blue Join Now!

____
@ @
..V
\___/

I agree with what everyone says about shai, Its an amazing thing to do, apoligise over the internet, where most people couldn't just a -blam!-.

Maybe you could add me some time and we can have a game? its the same as my bungie username.

And I really don't care about getting into the beta, and I hope any of you who actually do get in, that you treat it with care and seriousness, not just OmFG!!!11 LolO I Gott INto The BEta!

I don't want to buy a game later this year and have it riddled with bugs and glitches that no-body cared to find.

  • 01.05.2007 1:17 PM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

anyone who's played more than you has no life

anyone who's played less than you is a noob

In response to Jay; i hear you loud and clear.

I'll give you a little story. sure, most of you won't read it, but hey i'll write it anyway, because i know we've all done the same.

Halo:CE, a while ago now. Who'dve thought I hated the first time I played it? It went from
"it sucks"
to: "well, its not as good as goldeneye"
to: "reckon if we stack these VHS tapes and find a big piece of cardboard we can split the screen to play blood gulch snipers without looking at each others screens?"

I loved that game; and I gathered every possible scrap of information about Halo 2 I could. Anything. When I found out my local Gamestation was taking preorders; I was there. I preordered (to make sure) in Virgin, HMV and Game. I wanted the darn thing.

On November the 10th, I went into town at about 3 in the afternoon. I hung around the game shop reading magazines and that (pretty -blam!- now i think of it) Halo 2 "official guide". When the shop closed, I didn't go home, I stood outside, first in line for the midnight opening, just me and alex. we were like two kids on the way to disney land, checking our watches every five minutes. Nobody else even showed up til 10:30.

Ever since i've had the game, i've played it. Far more than I should've, probably. If it hadn't been for warcraft, i'd have played it a lot more too. Adding up the 8 or so accounts i've had over the past two years, i probably have about 450 pages worth of games to report. Jay, I understand how you feel about the beta, and how it pains you to see little brown nosing forum cops infesting these forums. there's no doubt in my mind they'll be the lucky "chosen" that play long before the rest of us fans. Just because I love bungie and their games, doesn't mean I'll become a sychophant to get what i want.

I don't want to jump through hoops to be part of something that is already part of me.

with regards to Shai; if you feel like it's your time to leave, then its your time to leave. All things run their course, just don't feel like you can't hang around because you've acted in a way most don't. Some call that character, you know :)

  • 01.05.2007 1:29 PM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Jay, I really don't see how I "branded" anyone by disagreeing with your opinion.
Please elaborate on that so I can avoid doing it in the future.

To your tom cruise analogy:

I still don't see this as a sound reason why you should get a beta spot. I go back to the fact that you have no way of knowing if the people who get Beta spots are smaller or bigger fans than you. If Bungie had said; "everyone who is a big fan will get a spot" and then you didn't, then you would have a right to be angry. They never said such a thing. In no way did they say anything that should have made you feel entitled to a spot. You can say that you deserve a spot for being a diehard fan, but then again, you really can't. Just because you are a diehard fan doesn't mean there aren't 13,300 other (more) diehard fans out there. Bungie has even set up a segment of the Beta specifically to cater to people like you- Die hard fans who they know who want to play the game. If anything, you should be extremely happy with the lengths Bungie is going to so that people like yourself get a fair chance at a spot.

And yet again, Life isn't fair.

  • 01.05.2007 1:40 PM PDT

SB-117

Posted by: Rainman89
And yet again, Life isn't fair.

This is flawed. Life isn't fair, right, that's just stating the obvious. But how is this a relevent point? As human beings, the kinder of us (I'd like to think Bungie qualifies as this) will want to make life be as fair and just as possible.

Now, yes, they are doing that to an extent by giving spots to loyal members, but Jays frustration comes from the fact that a lot of the members here who are guranteed a spot, don't even play Halo. A vast number of members are simply fans of the site, of eachother, not necessarily fans of the games, or of the company (really). Just because they socialise on the site more than Jay, they are more entitled to a spot? Because they're posted while Jay is playing?

This may be biased (as I've known Jay for years now and clocked thousands of hours of Halo with him and other friends), but I still admire Jay's honesty and he's but one of the few people who've inspired me to not just sit around, complimenting what I detest, faulting people for being more passionate than myself etc... like so many people seem to do here nowadays.

Now, I'm not dismissing your opinion or putting my opinion forth as fact, I just think that you are being as unfair, to Jay, as life apparently is.

P.S. Another thing I just want to make it clear, I admire Jay in a purely non-physical way of course. ;-) Pezza will always have my <3.

[Edited on 1/6/2007]

  • 01.06.2007 5:40 AM PDT

Posted by: ash55
Now, yes, they are doing that to an extent by giving spots to loyal members, but Jays frustration comes from the fact that a lot of the members here who are guranteed a spot, don't even play Halo.

I never thought of it like that. That doesn't seem quite right. But hell, you could say the same about crackdown fans!

To be honest I never saw why location, connection, time committed to playing and halo experience should ever not be the sole criteria for being a test subject. I guess it shows the true purpose of the beta, and in turn, why the community should not let itself be divided over a marketing device.

  • 01.06.2007 6:04 AM PDT
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Sheesh, I've gone down that road as well. Takes a person of character to apologize. Nobody should cast doubts on Bungies intentions anyway. They always have the best interests of their fans at heart.

  • 01.06.2007 6:44 AM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

Ash, you have to remember that the Beta is not a way to give diehard fans a copy of the game earlier- it is to test the game out. No one should assume that because they are big fan of the game they are entitled to a spot at the beta.

You are also thinking that playing the game makes him better than people who are posting. How so? Any member who posts his or her opinion in Optimatch has done a great service to Bungee in giving them real-life feedback, not just numbers and digits. So while JAY has been playing, and these member have been posting, they have been contributing to Bungie's ability to see what fans want. JAY can't expect to be considered a reliable source of feedback on the Beta if he never posts. Bungie knows that members who post in Optimatch more than daily will more than likely give feedback to the best of their ability on the Beta. So, if anyone wants one of Bungie's spots, being a forum cop won't help- Posting your opinions and giving feedback in Optimatch is the best course of action.

And to completely nullify my above point, and yours-

No one at Bungie gave out a list of people who are to be given spots. For all we know it will be the Moderators and theme masters, or just HBO people, or people Frankie likes because of their signatures. Anyone, on this site, JAY, me, you, we all have an equal shot at the beta as of right now. He has no right to claim he won't get a spot until the beta is set up, and he doesn't get one. Right now he is like someone in line for a PS3, claiming they know they won't get one because Sony doesn't love him enough, even though he doesn't know a) how many PS3's there are at the store or b) how many people are in line in front of him. It seems to me like people just want to complain about something that is no big deal, and something they have little information on in the first place.

And to the Life isn't fair comment-

I know saying "life isn't fair" isn't adding anything, but my parents drilled that into my head as a child, so I just enjoy saying it. It also usually fits in any debate, making it good filler when I want my post to be longer but I have no real ideas left ;) see, I just added a paragraph to my post with it.

  • 01.06.2007 6:48 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Posted by: Logical Thinking
Posted by: Pezza
Forgive Shai! Ah well, despite the fact I agreed with your thread, Shai, it takes a large degree of courage and morality to apologise on the internet. Where inhibitions, dignity and morality are often forgotten.


Yes pezza you speak true

I too agree with Pezza because I have no opinion of my own to form. Plus I want an ub3r-1337 spot in teh b3ta.!!!!

  • 01.06.2007 8:47 AM PDT
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Look ma, i'm posting in a "Look at me everyone, i'm leaving!!! *brown nose**brown nose**brown nose*" thread, so give me some betas!

  • 01.06.2007 9:26 AM PDT
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elmicker is right, we should put aside our differences and join the revolt.

Glory to the Revolution!

  • 01.06.2007 9:51 AM PDT

SB-117

Rainman, I wasn't at my PC when you sent me an MSN Message. So your answer is, "of course not". I don't think there are any "hard feelings" on an internet forum.

Alright, I really doubt Jay would mind if spots were given to people who actively play Halo and offer playlist feedbacl via Optimatch. It's those who only post in Optimatch to say "Shut up, Team Slayer is fine how it is!" or people who exclusively post in The Flood (or Underground and Septagon) who are the worrying folk.

I'd also like to point out that the most useful statistics come straight from the game itself. Optimatch is cool, but playlist/map/gametype/etc. popularity statistics seem far more useful than having 5 threads per page about how "BUNGIE make a MLG playlist!!!1" despite Team Hardcore being one of the most unpopular lists.

I do not speak on behalf of Jay, although I think he may agree with me in saying this. I personally don't want the majority of these spots to go to people who will play it, think "Yep, this is ok" and go back to posting on the forums. I want them to go to people who will play it, who will notice problems and not think twice about speaking their mind about ways to improve it.

You are right that no details have been released on the criteria to be pick in this whole "community slots" thing. However, that can be just as much of a worry as it is a relief. I am personally worried that it very well could be a random thing. That could lead to many people getting slots when they either hardly play, or know nothing about net code (perhaps both). Also, if the beta in your eyes, "is no big deal", then why are you passing judgement on someone who is truely passionate about it? For one thing, I'm grateful that Bungie didn't release how they plan to choose these testers, otherwise the forums would be even more rampant with people trying to fill that criteria.

Posted by: elmicker
Look ma, i'm posting in a "Look at me everyone, i'm leaving!!! *brown nose**brown nose**brown nose*" thread, so give me some betas!

Shai doesn't have a 360.

Edit: Oh, it's you elmicker, I need to learn to read....

[Edited on 1/6/2007]

  • 01.06.2007 9:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: ash55
Posted by: elmicker
Look ma, i'm posting in a "Look at me everyone, i'm leaving!!! *brown nose**brown nose**brown nose*" thread, so give me some betas!

Shai doesn't have a 360.


Actually, mary kate, that wasnt aimed at shai, rather those people quoting mods and "old skool" members and spouting 1 word responses such as "amen", which quite gets on my tits because i know if i'd posted exactly the same thing, i'd get exactly no response. for example if pezza had said what i'd said, we'd have uproar and call for change, but i said it and all i got was a sarcky comment.

[Edited on 1/6/2007]

  • 01.06.2007 10:05 AM PDT
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Read about the Forgotten Spartan I Program
Butane: To protect the world from devastation!
sir_brilliant: To unite all people within our nation!
Rainman89: To denounce the evils of truth and love!
sir_brilliant: To extend out reach to the stars above!
SpaceGhostFlyer: Jessie!
Butane: James!
sir_brilliant: Team Rocket blasting off at the speed of light
Butane: Surrender now or prepare to fight
sir_brilliant: Meowth, that's right!

I'd like to apologize to Impy, since I think he's talking about me.

And my final word on the beta.

I wasn't suggesting that posting in Optimatch would get you a spot. I was suggesting that people who post stuff that helps Bungie with things in ways numbers can't. Numbers can't tell you if a playlist if unbalanced on a certain map, numbers can't tell you where new super bounces have shown up. Numbers can't tell you if people would like a new playlist introduced.

There are some places where Numbers cease to be useful, and you need human feedback. The people who have proven themselves to give that should be the first to get spots. Then the diehard fans who play for hours a day should be catered to.

I don't see where stating that 1) I don't think JAY, or anyone else, should feel entitled to a spot 2) I feel Optimatch users deserve the first Beta spots 3) that the Beta is not really a big deal, is Passing judgement on JAY. I am giving my opinion, not casting him or anyone else out and stereotyping. If anything I have been judged by many who will remain nameless as a brown nosing forum cop simply because I don't feel betrayed by Bungie, and because I don't think everyone deserves a shot just because they play a lot of XBL or are in a certain group.

  • 01.06.2007 11:40 AM PDT
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No one, and i mean no one, should be "entitled" to a beta spot, especially people who simply buy a game. How does buying a game qualify you to be chosen as a tester? so i propose that the beta is renamed "Halo 3 publicity stunt #17", just to save confusion.

  • 01.06.2007 12:36 PM PDT

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