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It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

I'm not friendly. I'm angry.

But yeah, IRC is rawk.

  • 01.28.2007 7:58 PM PDT

(random yet funny signature goes here)

Just wait untill the Halo 3 launch comes. The forums will go crazy. People will be split, wars will start, all the new kids will be here complaining and praising. Then there will be the people who will be comparing it to GoW or any other game that has or will come out. I can see the H1>H3 threads already. Shudders. The only threads that I will be looking at in the Halo 3 forum after launch will be the search for easter egg threads.

  • 01.28.2007 8:35 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

Posted by: Shishka
Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave.

Maybe, with the New Hotness V2.0 we can get back some of the things the groups lost, like the customizability(sp?). I do agree that the B.net vets hang/hide out in the groups, The Maw, The Underground, or the Septagon, because, let's face it...that's where the more intelligent, thought provoking conversations occur.
I remember back when I was new (and didn't even have an account here yet), the only forums I looked at were New Mombasa and Zanzibar. I didn't even bother with the other forums untill almost a month after I joined, and probably longer before I got into the groups. Why? Because those were the only topics that I cared about. Then, after a while I started to migrate into other forums, which is what I think some of the new members now-a-days will do.
With time they will become the older members, us the Old Skewl, and there will be a new group of new members. It's a continious cycle.

I wasn't around for (and/or didn't pay attention to) the Soapbox, the Comics, and the Letters to the Webmaster when they were popular, so I really don't have anything to say about it. But I think it would be nice if they started to do some of that stuff again, because it makes Bungie unique.

I'm sure some people could help with the Bungie.net community interaction though. Like starting a chapter spotlight, a new Bathroom reader, have tourneyments, etc. That actually sounds pretty fun, and I think it would help the community become better like it once was.
But I do think KP is trying to get more interaction with the Monthly fan art thing he's doing, which is pretty cool IMO.

[Edited on 1/28/2007]

  • 01.28.2007 9:21 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Well, since the Bungie community is now centered around things like Halo 3 and Halo Wars, then the most logical way to bring the community back to somewhat of its former self is to use Halo 3 to do it. Revival of the Jumpers, maybe? And no more of this Project SOL crap, either.

  • 01.28.2007 9:57 PM PDT

To me, it seems like Bungie has been making the same empty promises for the past few months. Achronos hints at something good, but we can't know anything about it. Stosh says he might get working on some new features, and KP just stays at HBO. Sketch has disappeared and hasn't logged in to this website in basically forever. Frankie keeps saying that there will be something good next week, but nothing's there. Not much is being done. What the hell happened to this? Nothing here has been changed in a year. They keep saying that they're too busy with Halo 3, but even the people who are hired to interact with the community are gone or don't do anything. Although, there have been nice changes, like the avatar update (although weren't we promised more of them?), and the search feature and stuff like that.

And the entire community is just... boring. All the same crap over and over again. And I think it's caused by lack of interaction from Bungie. I love the idea of a weekly image thing. Or another ILB type of thing just so we could have something new to discuss. Because if there isn't going to be anything new in the Halo 3 humpdays, then don't bother posting them. I take it as a "Hahah, we have Halo 3 and you don't" type of thing now. Bungie just isn't all that fun anymore.

Oh, and I'm very tired and grumpy right now, so that may not have came off as I wanted it to. I love Bungie, and not much will change that.

  • 01.28.2007 10:15 PM PDT

(random yet funny signature goes here)

I agree with you Hobo. The hump days are just "Frankie got fraged by a super secret weapon that looks really cool, but it's too secret. Than on another map Frankie turned the tables and fraged someone that's not even part of the community with another super secret weapon that also looked really great, but again, we ain't revealing anything. Go away."

  • 01.28.2007 10:43 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

The Humpdays aren't supposed to be informational, you know. I can appreciate the humor, even if it is starting to get old.

  • 01.28.2007 10:48 PM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

But the humpdays and Weekly updates shouldn't eclipse the need for real interaction.

  • 01.28.2007 11:25 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

You're absolutely right. It shouldn't. One could argue that no other dev interacts with its fanbase like Bungie does now, which is true, but then again, given the level of interaction we we're all so obviously used to, is it wrong to expect more?

  • 01.28.2007 11:32 PM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

Bungie always has had a great level of community interaction with the company. I just feel that standard has dropped in the last few years, and trying to sate us with "This weeks update where we promise cool things on the Horizon sometime in the "near future"" doesn't always cut it.

EDIT: I'm not saying they should give us too many details, as we saw with Halo 2, that can be disastrous. A little more involvement is what would be nice. More community humpdays. More chapter spotlights, updating the outdated pages.

[Edited on 1/29/2007]

  • 01.29.2007 12:15 AM PDT
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I think it makes sense to not disclose much information about Halo 3. If they were to promise us the Moon and the stars and then only delivered the Moon, then a ton of people would be in a riot. I mean, which reaction would you rather get when Halo 3 rolls out? A "WTF, where's _______ that you promised!?" or "Awesome, I didn't expect this and it rocks!"? So I think that's understandable.

As for community interaction, I do think its OK. It would be nice to get Halo 2 humpdays with the community going again. A chapter spotlight would be cool, but with so many I wouldn't even want to think about where to start with those. I always thought it would be cool to have a Bungie.net community contest, which is what me and a few other members tried to do oh-so-long ago, and they ended up doing well despite us just being fans of the community.

And as for IRC (and I'm just speaking from #moap, not the whole of IBO, since I don't ever go into the other rooms), but trust me, there are a few of us that watch and post on B.net all the time.

  • 01.29.2007 12:47 AM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

What I'm saying is that the level of interaction we get is excellent compared to other devs, but paltry compared the how it was a few years ago. So whether or not that's a reason to complain is up to you.

Personally, I don't mind. Bungie's had overwhelming success with Halo, and the fact that they can still crank out Weekly Updates(no matter how tepid, empty, and boring you think they may be), do weekly Humpdays, and all the other irregular stuff, in addition to working on such a massive game, is amazing in its own right.

Now let me ask a question. Since when does a community rely solely on its "leaders"? If the Bungie community is as strong everyone claims, we should still be the tight knit community we once were, regardless of how much Sketch posts, how many Bungie sponsored contests we have, or what have you.

I think that a lot of people(who weren't even around before late 2004) are claiming that the Bungie community is dead, and blame it on lack of staff interaction, when they weren't even around to know what it was like to SEE staff interaction, and don't do anything about it to improve the (apparently terrible and hopeless) situation.

Maybe you should concentrate on interacting with others in ways that don't involve flaming and fawning over the moderators? You know, things like community-hosted Halo 2 tournaments, art contests, all that stuff.

Just a thought.

EDIT: As per a special request, Pezza asks that everyone fawn over him. DO IT NOW.

[Edited on 1/29/2007]

  • 01.29.2007 1:10 AM PDT
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you know why you have these issues? Kids. Prior to Halo, and especially Halo 2, bungie.net was populated by a smaller, but older and welll, different crowd. Every day more of those people leave and are replaced by the loud stupid and obnoxious 11 year old kid.

  • 01.29.2007 3:37 AM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
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Posted by: RoboChocobo
Posted by: The Black Knight
then what will we do?

What will we do?

I think that's the most important we should be asking. No one wants to be the forgotten leftovers of course, but I think it's integral that those who truly believe in this community have to find a way to prevent any further decline.

That's a key point... and I'll address it again in a bit.

I'm going to guess that there are those reading this who fit all of the above criteria. It's our dedication to a kick ass company that drives us. We need to do our part.
Just highlighting the point again.

So I'm very confused how a social community like HBO developed, and seems to be more accepted by Bungie, than the community of their own website.
HBO formed because some fans got together and created it, the same as the rest of the Bungie.org site. It's become self-sustaining, again in large part because its members are the ones doing the heavy lifting... the same for Rampancy and High Impact Halo.

It all comes down to the question, "What are you prepared to do?" If the answer is, "Wait to be given something by Bungie," then you're naturally going to be disappointed; when the active fan base grows from several hundred to several hundred thousand, it's mightily hard to produce content at anything resembling the same per-person rate. The idea is that fan communities should be largely self-supporting, with Bungie giving the occasional assist.

The best example of how that worked is the Groups function here... originally from a time when web hosting was much more expensive and difficult, a Bungie-hosted online presence for the different fan groups was a huge hand-up for people trying to coordinate fan activities. Fans provide the content for groups, and Bungie helps them support that.

Massive fan communities made content for Marathon and Myth. Just look at the Marathon scenarios, or the amazing plugins and Total Conversions that have been made for Myth. ( ie TSG, Jinn, Mazz 6, Bushido, B&G)
Again highlighting the point that it's the fans, not Bungie, who are generating that content.

The fan gatherings. Bungie used to Hold Bungiefests, parties were to be had at Macworld, and great joy was passed around. So where have these things gone? We have web contests, and whatnot, but ultimately it seems like that last "in name" Bungiefest was the Halo 2 launch party (which I did happen to attend). However the only gathers I've seen of Bungie now seem to be things organised by HBO, and Louis Wu. I don't pretend to understand how those work, and I wish I could be educated on how they are set up, the guest list decided, and everything set into motion.
Again, this is a fan-originated thing; the first Fanfests were run by the fans. Bungie helped with the venue and (of course) showed up, but they were originally started by Bungie's (in my best Kathy Bates voice) Number One Fan.

I'm hoping the theme is becoming clear now. Bungie can't hand you a better fan community. Bungie can support a fan commmunity by helping with the resources, but it's up to you to build it. And it has always been up to you to build it. As HBO has shown. As Rampancy has shown. As High Impact Halo has shown. As MBO has shown. As (Forerunners help me) Halo2sucks has shown. As all the other sites I haven't visited or mentioned, and as all the groups here on Bungie.net, have shown.

So, (in my best Sean Connery voice) what are you prepared to do?

-- Steve thinks the biggest problem is not the activity of "bad" fans, but the passivity of "good" fans.

  • 01.29.2007 8:26 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Thank You Anton!!

I agree with OP, but I also agree with Anton. Everybody is ready to stand up and shout about this not being the community it once was, but when it comes time to revive that community, everyone takes thier seats.

Face it, we are the community. The community is not something that magically appears with the click of the Join button. Its something that we all create by our contributions or lack thereof.

There is an abundance of "community" out there and exists regardless of Bungie's interaction. The only remaining question is not whether or not a community exists, but to what lengths you would go to involve yourself with those communities.

  • 01.29.2007 10:06 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

Bungie listens to its fans! ^.^ | Ninja .II./ You
RCG: In ur base, steelin' ur flagz. | Watch the demo, then join the carnage!

Posted by: Anton P Nym
-- Steve thinks the biggest problem is not the activity of "bad" fans, but the passivity of "good" fans.

All that is necessary for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing.

Well. For "evil", maybe... "boredom" and for "good men"; "fans"? =P

[Edited on 1/29/2007]

  • 01.29.2007 10:13 AM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

Thank you Anton, I think that's a very good point that you've made. I neglected to reflect upon just how much HBO, Rampancy, and other fan groups have accomplis

I was spending more time focusing on how many seperate fan groups there are, rather than that we're all Bungie fans.

I feel somewhat foolish for overlooking the answer that has been infront of me. So the path is set then...only fear serves to deter me.

[Edited on 1/29/2007]

  • 01.29.2007 10:57 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Dangit Chocobo! Stop making such excellent threads and such.
[hr]
I agree, Bungie has lost some of it's community-ness (Yeah, it's a word now.) in the recent years, which I think is due to the fact that the community is much bigger. Far bigger than it once was. It's easy to address 1000 people with a good sense of companionship or with whatever word you would describe as 'the Bungie community feel', but 10,000? 100,000?

How big is the Bungie/Halo community, compared to the Bungie/Myth community?

Perhaps some of Bungie's staff, the person who wrote the comics, or the Webmaster himself, have just lost the motivation to do such things as they once did. Perhaps they feel that after a hard day at work, responding to a bunch of fan e-mails, or spending some free time on a funny little comic just isn't worth it. They don't get paid any more for it, and they're all furiously working on Halo 3 to make sure it doesn't flop, as some claimed Halo 2 did.

Maybe this big gap of "Bungie community feel" is all just the build up to a stronger, larger, and even better community upon the release of Halo 3. It's not very welcomed, however.

And I agree with WhiteRaven's comment, on the fact that many of the Community team spend more time on HBO than over here, but then again, what are they going to say? Notice how Bungie.net has these "let's talk about Halo 3 and the online community" subjects, whereas HBO is the place to go for the LAN parties, events, etc.

I just wish somehow they could be meshed into two. Somehow the Septagon could become that place for events, reports on LAN parties, etc., as it seems to be intended.

The problem here, with everything, is time, and perhaps even willpower. Not enough time to do the comic. Not enough time to respond to fan mail. Not enough time to do the, for the community, fun things that Bungie used to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Bungie lazy, I'm actually calling them great. They're spending time working on what might possibly be one of the best games of this decade. They have a right to not have enough time.

I'd like to add that yes, it is a lot of the fans that run the events, etc., and probably more so than Bungie that we all feel a sense of 'non-community' around Bungie.net these days. Maybe we need to also make it our part to once again motivate the webmaster and the comic artist, for example, to begin creating content for us again, or maybe one of our artistic fans out there could make a comic themselves. I agree with Anton and Chocobo, much of this is caused by the lack of good fans doing things towards the community, as opposed to sitting around (as I admit I've done and am doing) waiting for Bungie to give me something.

See, now I'm not sure what I'm asking for, or what my point is, exactly, so I'll end it here. .. ;)

[Edited on 1/29/2007]

  • 01.29.2007 11:07 AM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Dangit Chocobo! Stop making such excellent threads and such.
[hr]
I agree, Bungie has lost some of it's community-ness (Yeah, it's a word now.) in the recent years, which I think is due to the fact that the community is much bigger. Far bigger than it once was. It's easy to address 1000 people with a good sense of companionship or with whatever word you would describe as 'the Bungie community feel', but 10,000? 100,000?

How big is the Bungie/Halo community, compared to the Bungie/Myth community?

Perhaps some of Bungie's staff, the person who wrote the comics, or the Webmaster himself, have just lost the motivation to do such things as they once did. Perhaps they feel that after a hard day at work, responding to a bunch of fan e-mails, or spending some free time on a funny little comic just isn't worth it. They don't get paid any more for it, and they're all furiously working on Halo 3 to make sure it doesn't flop, as some claimed Halo 2 did.

Maybe this big gap of "Bungie community feel" is all just the build up to a stronger, larger, and even better community upon the release of Halo 3. It's not very welcomed, however.

And I agree with WhiteRaven's comment, on the fact that many of the Community team spend more time on HBO than over here, but then again, what are they going to say? Notice how Bungie.net has these "let's talk about Halo 3 and the online community" subjects, whereas HBO is the place to go for the LAN parties, events, etc.

I just wish somehow they could be meshed into two. Somehow the Septagon could become that place for events, reports on LAN parties, etc., as it seems to be intended.

The problem here, with everything, is time, and perhaps even willpower. Not enough time to do the comic. Not enough time to respond to fan mail. Not enough time to do the, for the community, fun things that Bungie used to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Bungie lazy, I'm actually calling them great. They're spending time working on what might possibly be one of the best games of this decade. They have a right to not have enough time.

See, now I'm not sure what I'm asking for, or what my point is, exactly, so I'll end it here. .. ;)


I think you bring up some very good points. Mainly that you adress

1) General fatigue does wear on a community, and slow it's interaction.

I think many of us here can say that they've tried to start a "machinima, A community project, a vid doc, a custom theme etc" yet very few of these efforts ever come to fruitation, or are accepted. I myself have been at work at several projects, but barely have the energy to finish them. I think this is probably true of alot of us.

We lack guidance, and so we sit here, infront of a monitor, with a heavy sigh as we think about just how awsome that new theme would be, or how much you would like to affect the community. We all want to help, but there IS a reason there are so few theme masters.

I think guidance is the hardest part. We want the path to be laid infront of us, or some kind of a pat on the back to keep going, while in real life we fight extenuating circumstance, work, school, lethargy, and our projects die.

I myself have been at work on a Machinima Script I planned on filming and posting to B.net and HBO since Febuary. I've ended up only getting 1/3 of the work done. Is it because my ideas are bad? No, I just lack motivation.

So how many others out there are floundering from Motivation? How many other fans simply lack that final push. We see the work of those we do succeed, everyday we see it on HBO. Maybe Bungie, just like us, simply lack the motivation, and the willpower to take the time to update something that likely won't fully be appreciated?

This requires more thought.

  • 01.29.2007 11:24 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Note: I edited in another paragraph, second to last. :\

Chocobo, we're getting that Machinima done when Halo 3 rolls around.. ;)
I suppose if you have to motivation, as a whole community, we can get things done, and things can be fun. If we think this place is getting dull or boring, I suppose that's our own fault, isn't it? Community includes us. If the community is boring, then aren't we, the community, the cause for it's state of boredom?

See, I'm not much of an artist, I'm not the kind of guy that starts up a fan website and collects and posts news and fan art etc every single day. I really can't contribute any more to this website than giving my opinion and participating in discussions in a reasonable manner. So, in a weak attempt, I'm going to ask everyone out there who really loves this community, and wants to see it progress, to do something about it, instead of just sitting around waiting for Bungie to put up a comic, or waiting around for the webmaster to stop drinking for a few hours to give us some entertainment with his replies to fan mail.

  • 01.29.2007 11:32 AM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

You know what, I think some motivation is kicking in...

  • 01.29.2007 11:51 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Part of the reason some the rest of the site seems a bit... stagnant... is because of a certain, uh... change... that is being made to the base content system of the site. It limits the flexibility of the content guys. Once that limitation is removed, well, things should get a bit better.

You'll know it when you see it. Hopefully it will be live in the next month or two.

Posted by: impurity
I forgot to add that the initial post seemed like a list of reasons why Bungie hired KP. Like...a detailed list. I do wish some of the community parts of the site he's suppose to update actually were but all of the news stories on the game and community related events rule. It would probably take some steps on our part to actually figure out a way to pick what parts of this particular community deserve a spotlight or recognition. Without bias or agendas. Paranoia, too. And those little bugs that the computers have that make crazy sentences that don't mean anything.

Pink Menace is more evil than lawn decorations.

  • 01.29.2007 12:29 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: Achronos
Part of the reason some the rest of the site seems a bit... stagnant... is because of a certain, uh... change... that is being made to the base content system of the site. It limits the flexibility of the content guys. Once that limitation is removed, well, things should get a bit better.

You'll know it when you see it. Hopefully it will be live in the next month or two.


*Achronos casts Moral-Boosting Rain on the party*
*+5 to moral*

  • 01.29.2007 12:34 PM PDT

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