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Subject: 'Posts About Users' Rule Adjustment?

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Ok, I'm not really in the mood at all to type something really big. Of course, knowing my posts, it'll probably end up being pretty long anyway.. :\

I've noticed a lot recently that a large number of threads about "the forum ninjas" or even talking indirectly about the forum ninjas have bee locked, following the "No Posts about Individual Users" rule.

I have a little problem with this.. Let's take a look; why was this rule put in place? Oh, it's so people wouldn't make posts like "Poll: Zag is an idiot. I think so." It's so people wouldn't insult or attack others on the public forums, and keep them clean.

My problem is that this rule is almost abused, in a sense. Why can't we have positive threads about users? Why can't I make a thread saying "What's the Ninjas favorite foodsnack item?" That is in no way attacking them, or being offensive. If anything, it should help us get to know the moderating team a little better, and have some fun with the community.

For example; this thread right here. (Oh, and Evilcam, I'm not trying to say you did anything wrong, necessarily, it just happens to be the most recent one. I've seen almost every moderator close such threads.)

What was his offense? Breaking the rule of "Posting about other users and/or forum ninjas".. But what was his goal, which would've not started a flame-war or fight? It was to share some funny comments with everyone, and perhaps get some more discussion going with our great moderating team and community.

If you even look at Evilcam's reply, he basically says he'd love to have such a thread, but it's 'not allowed'.. Seems like it was almost done 'just because', even the rule itself was silently put into question.

My point here is that I think this rule is being largely misinterpreted and has long since lost it's purpose. It's as if you're trying to put out an oven fire, and instead you end up spraying the fire extinguisher all over the kitchen, even where the fire has no chance of going. You could say "Better safe than sorry", but I think that's a largely evasive way of dealing with it.

And looking up, I did make a post longer than I thought I would.. Go figure. :P

[Edited on 2/2/2007]

  • 02.02.2007 3:25 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

I think the "no ninja threads" was put into affect after too many threads focusing solely on ninjas had been made. The "who's your favorite moderator" threads are locked because they have been done so many times. I think its the clone thread rule, in addition to the threads about specific users rule.

I don't want any threads about ninjas either, because they disrupt the usual subjects that this forum was intended to discuss.

It did pain me to lock that other thread though. As I said, I love stoshisms.

[Edited on 2/2/2007]

  • 02.02.2007 3:31 PM PDT
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You're generally right there Zag. In some cases, I think memebers and moderators would enjoy a thread pointed at a certain group in a positive way.
By having the wider ban on such threads however, it eliminates the chance of people screwing around the system, but perhaps more judgement and less strictness would be a better way forwards.

...bant.

  • 02.02.2007 3:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: SS_Zag1
Why can't I make a thread saying "What's the Ninjas favorite foodsnack item?" That is in no way attacking them, or being offensive. If anything, it should help us get to know the moderating team a little better, and have some fun with the community.

It was because of threads like that, that the rule was taken into effect. There was a point where it just became spam and too random. It's not us though, you guys wanted this rule, so damn right you're going to get it.

  • 02.02.2007 3:36 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Posted by: evilcam
I think the "no ninja threads" was put into affect after too many threads focusing solely on ninjas had been made. The "who's your favorite moderator" threads are locked because they have been done so many times. I think its the clone thread rule, in addition to the threads about specific users rule.

Sure, I understand there's a limit that needs to be set to 'moderator' threads, and how repeat/clone topics are quite obnoxious, but I can't see how it's more work for you to leave one open, and lock the rest, as opposed to locking them all..


I don't want any threads about ninjas either, because they disrupt the usual subjects that this forum was intended to discuss.

The Septagon is about the community. Aren't moderators a large part of the Bungie.net community? I mean, if there's a joke around here, it's usually about Recon being insanely old, or how your avatar still creeps me out every time I see it.

Or even those Stoshisms.


It did pain me to lock that other thread though. As I said, I love stoshisms.


Well, who doesn't? :P
I just feel that it seems strange to have be almost non-human when deciding which threads get locked and which threads stay. I know exceptions give people the wrong ideas occasionally, but then again, you still end up locking some thread, don't you? I mean, "Funniest thing you've heard from a moderator" isn't harming the forum in any way. Like I said, I think it helps the community, if anything.

  • 02.02.2007 3:39 PM PDT

*Sgt

I highly agree, but it has nothing to with moderators (to me, at least)... just people in general

  • 02.02.2007 3:42 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

I hate that rule.

...

Can we have a pinned "LOL Ninjas" topic to make up for it?

  • 02.02.2007 4:09 PM PDT

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Posted by: BobBQ
I hate that rule.

...

Can we have a pinned "LOL Ninjas" topic to make up for it?


You just like getting attention.. I see how it is.





I say we give Bob attention!

[Edited on 2/2/2007]

  • 02.02.2007 4:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: SS_Zag1
I saw we give Bob attention!


I saw we do it too! Darn that we...

Ultimately, the question comes down to whether we should be able to have fun by talking about moderators or not.

But the questions I wish to pose are these: Why must we only talk about moderators? Couldn't a member come up with a better quote than a moderator? Why should we only care about what the mods' favorite snacks are? Why not allow everyone to participate in the discussion, as opposed to just the people who have good moderator quotes?

Those who care only about the moderators probably don't care all that much about the community.

  • 02.02.2007 4:26 PM PDT

I remember when I used this space to put cool looking links to my chapters back in the day. I don't even know why I'm using it now. Why are you even reading this? You must be interested in me. Still reading?

You could probaly come up woith different threads that aren't directed torward individual members. If the rules were changed then many Bungie members will probaly take advantage of it and try to bend the rules. I think it should stay the same and I am ok with how it is now.

  • 02.02.2007 4:30 PM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

The rule isn't actually all that old; it's only been around for a few months, if I remember correctly. There were topics about moderators posted every day. And I'm pretty sure that I'm not exaggerating right now.

This is just my personal opinion, but I think some people place far too much attention on the moderators. For instance, why couldn't the thread you linked to have asked for jokes from any member? Other members make jokes too, and they're not any less funny than a joke made by a ninja.

  • 02.02.2007 4:33 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Posted by: Mabian
But the questions I wish to pose are these: Why must we only talk about moderators? Couldn't a member come up with a better quote than a moderator? Why should we only care about what the mods' favorite snacks are? Why not allow everyone to participate in the discussion, as opposed to just the people who have good moderator quotes?

Those who care only about the moderators probably don't care all that much about the community.


Ahh! I said Saw. I see that now. >_>

I was almost going to say "Why can't we make posts about members as long as they're positive?" but I figured that would be a bit too much of a question..

:\

  • 02.02.2007 4:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Logical Thinking
Also, there should be an exception to this concerning percieved mistakes made in moderation. They are a valid topic of the community, but are commonly locked. If you dont talk about mistakes how can you resolve them?

There IS an exception in that case, which is why the "I've had enough, this moderation is stupid!" threads stay open for so long. We only lock them when they turn stupid.

-TGP-

[Edited on 2/2/2007]

  • 02.02.2007 4:47 PM PDT
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Well, I agree. I feel that, while I probably wouldn't start one, that each thread has to be evaluated in its own right. It becomes somewhat gray, but situations often are.

Having blanket rules are fine....when they consistently serve a community.

It sort of reminds me of how law enforcement has changed since the enception of this country (usa). Early on, the term "peacekeeper" was a true description of an officer's duty. There wasn't necessarily a "letter of the law" being kept. If a solution could be employed, it was done so with the minimum of intervention to the parties/community involved. This kept the peace, so to speak, though also left room for the unique situations a "peacekeeper" may face. It is much different than the officers who hand out tickets now to "speeders" going 5mph over the speed limit.

So anyway, if we can look at rule enforcement in that light, it would seem to encourage the diversity that makes the community great.

  • 02.02.2007 4:49 PM PDT
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I do disagree with your post zag, which there are very few. And as people have said already, the community wanted the rule in the first place, so the community got it. No more, no less. I believe that the main problem is with people wanting to know things just about moderators. They should be asking the community what their favorite quotes are in general, not just moderator quotes. In my mind, threads about moderators are more of a 'Hey! Lets see who can suck-up the most!' type of threads.

So, my question is, why do people really care? The moderators are just ordinary members, like ourselves. They just have janitor duty : P. All joking aside though, it really doesn't matter. They are a nuisance in my opinion. As of many other threads that are against the rules. As the mods know, I am fairly picky. Hell, I tell evilcam that just about everyday. The fact is, is that it is a rule; it should stay a rule. If someone wants to make a thread as shown here, one can simply make a thread asking what a persons favorite quote is. It is most likely going to contain quotes from mods. Maybe before their moderator-ship, but none the less I can guarantee you that there will at least be twenty percent of the thread having moderator quotes.

They are useless in my opinion. Just as mabian said, "Those who care only about the moderators probably don't care all that much about the community." And I could not agree with more with you mabian. Oh, and aku, the rule has been in place for little over a year if I am not mistaken.

  • 02.02.2007 5:19 PM PDT

I remember when I used this space to put cool looking links to my chapters back in the day. I don't even know why I'm using it now. Why are you even reading this? You must be interested in me. Still reading?

You should probaly take this to Achronos or get a Moderator for help contacting him but I highly doubt that anything will be changed. The rules specificaly read ,"Don't use the forums as a means of communicating with a specific person. That is what Private Messages are for." Just read The Rules. I seriously you guys are taking this a bit too seriously.

Bungie is an organized place that is liked to be kept clean and kept that way. There will be too many threads about individual members that we won't be able to participate in. And It will be taken out of hand and alot of Bungie.net members will probaly start taking advantage of it and critizing members (which is also against the rules. So I say keep it how it is.

  • 02.02.2007 5:27 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

All I know is my "Those who are slightly more significant than the rest" threads were locked. Even in the Flood, Ghandi "hung my laundry out to dry".

Granted, I'm sure someone would get upset because they didn't make the list, but wouldn't that imspire them, as well as others, to be more constructive in their posting and forumry?

I just don't see how congratulating members for being positive contributers is grounds for locking. Most of these members receive little to no recognition. Are we just going to let them grow lethargic and jaded because they feel that they are not valued members of the community?

Self-esteem only get's you so far. Eventually, you need some recognition!

  • 02.02.2007 5:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: American Recoil
You should probaly take this to Achronos or get a Moderator for help contacting him but I highly doubt that anything will be changed. The rules specificaly read ,"Don't use the forums as a means of communicating with a specific person. That is what Private Messages are for." Just read The Rules. I seriously you guys are taking this a bit too seriously.

Bungie is an organized place that is liked to be kept clean and kept that way. There will be too many threads about individual members that we won't be able to participate in. And It will be taken out of hand and alot of Bungie.net members will probaly start taking advantage of it and critizing members (which is also against the rules. So I say keep it how it is.


Ah, but such threads are not conversations with those specific people, are they? And the language is also murky because it says "person," which is singular. The problem was that some of the topics were actually serious. But then things got out of hand, with topics that centered around the many different trivia facts of the mods. So Banshee Baron made a thread saying that something needed to be done, and lo and behold, something was done.

Now of course, the "no threads about individual members" rule was up long before the no threads about moderators rule. "Clean and tidy" had nothing to do with the latter. It was simply a matter of whether such threads were pointless spam created to get moderators to reply, or threads of actual worth. Of course, it was decreed they were the former.

All I know is my "Those who are slightly more significant than the rest" threads were locked. Even in the Flood, Ghandi "hung my laundry out to dry".

Granted, I'm sure someone would get upset because they didn't make the list, but wouldn't that imspire them, as well as others, to be more constructive in their posting and forumry?

I just don't see how congratulating members for being positive contributers is grounds for locking. Most of these members receive little to no recognition. Are we just going to let them grow lethargic and jaded because they feel that they are not valued members of the community?

Self-esteem only get's you so far. Eventually, you need some recognition!


If you need to let people know they are wonderful members of the community who should keep up their good work, why not just send them a PM? Either way you are telling them that they are appreciated. Is there a specific reason why they need to be honored in a thread rather than privately? Besides that, it is believed by the classic philosophers that the truly just people do not do good deeds for the recognition, but rather for the good of those they help.

  • 02.02.2007 8:39 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Well, you must realize I was away from Bungie.net when that rule was put into place, for the most part. I saw the abundance of "Threads about Ninjas", but I saw maybe, one or two people, out of all the rest participating in the threads saying things like: "This is a thread about users. It's going to be locked!"

And then one of the moderators comes in saying "Yeah, you're probably right." Honestly, I don't think the community as a whole actually agreed to that, it was a just a few.. I still stand by the fact that the rule (no threads about specific users) was put in place to avoid bad things about them, but I really don't see why we can't find out what exactly BobBQ does with his spare time, or that one funny thing Recon said.

You can say "Oh, just PM them if you're wondering", but I think threads allow all the moderators to reply at once, and it allows the community to discuss things. I think a community just runs better when the moderators (or leaders etc.) can talk with the community on a more human and personal level.

  • 02.03.2007 11:53 AM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

The fact that a rule had to be made against talking about individual people because so many people thought it'd be funny to make a thread for the sole purpose of making fun of someone is pretty sad. In my last life, I had a small desire, but a desire nonetheless to become a bungie.net moderator. Now, I sometimes feel like it's the same thing as becoming a nursery school teacher, just without the nap time. And everyone knows nap time is the best part of nursery school. But for those who do find the time to do it, more power to you.

  • 02.03.2007 12:07 PM PDT

SB-117

Yes, it's true that the rule was created because of threads like that.

1) I would have probably locked it too. I think if you want to talk about one-liners, jokes and other such things, there's The Flood, the moap IRC chat, private groups etc. I admit, The Septagon is about the community as well as the website, and I like comedy as much as the next guy, but jokes aren't really what The Septagon is about.

2) These threads suffocated the forum a few months ago and it was basically The Flood v.2 with the exception that people didn't even realise it was off topic.

3) There's also the fact that threads "about the moderators" elevate them....err.. us... higher than normal members in a sense. This, of course, is utter crap as members can say some pretty hilarious things too... But a thread like: "Post funny things forum members have said here", would have been locked immediately round about the same time The Septagon was full of "mod threads".

4) When people saw that "mod threads" got all the attention, people began creating more and more; thus further increasing the ratio of Flood-v2 : Septagon in favour of Flood v2.

There's a fine border between "friendly community chat" and "spam". In my opinion, those threads count as the latter.

[Edited on 2/3/2007]

  • 02.03.2007 12:11 PM PDT

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2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

Well I have an idea. Why don't we have a moderator create a thread that users can post questions in and have fun with? It would be stickied and jerks could be banned. Kinda like any other Q&A thread.

  • 02.03.2007 12:19 PM PDT

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